Negative Targets

[kruger]

Has anyone tried cutting out the area we want to hit on a target for use in practice sessions? For example, cutting out the upper half of the main A zone on an USPSA target, or the -0 zone on an IDPA target, then taping only the hits that occur outside the cut out.

From my experiment, the advantages appear to be:

-Less tape used.

-Less time spent walking up to the target, taping, and walking back to the shooting position or start point.

-It doesn't reward being more accurate than needed.

-Hits outside of the targetted area are _really_ visible.

The disadvantages appear to be:

-I can't confirm the call on the shots inside the targetted area.

-I am training myself to see something other than what I want to see in matches (cut out v. A zone).

Are my observations accurate? How critical are the disadvantages?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

Edited October 27, 2005 by kruger

[MVZ]

I don't cut out the A zone. I do not tape any A zone hits only the C and D hits. Same theory but I am looking at full targets

MVZ

[Sharyn]

I'm a total visual learner. I try to practice exactly what I'll see therefore your "disadvantages" would weigh quite heavily in my decision.

[SteveZ]

I tape all the holes because I want to see that I'm calling the shots from run to run on the targets.

[shred]

I'll play 'outs' every so often with well-shot-up targets when I'm too lazy to rebuild an A-zone with pasters and tape. Tape everything that's not an A, then do a simple drill, say draws or strong-hand or something (for this to work, you have to be sure you aren't going to miss the target completely) 10 times, go up and see how many shots aren't A's. D's count for 3. Tape them and come back and do another 10. The goal being to see how many of the drill you can do before you have 10 "outs".

Doing 100 draws with only 10 'outs' at 15 or 20 yards is a good exercise both physically and mentally.

[Loves2Shoot]

I'll play 'outs' every so often with well-shot-up targets when I'm too lazy to rebuild an A-zone with pasters and tape. Tape everything that's not an A, then do a simple drill, say draws or strong-hand or something (for this to work, you have to be sure you aren't going to miss the target completely) 10 times, go up and see how many shots aren't A's. D's count for 3. Tape them and come back and do another 10. The goal being to see how many of the drill you can do before you have 10 "outs".

Trying to do 100 draws with only 10 'outs' at 15 or 20 yards is a good exercise both physically and mentally.

Me too.

[Paradox]

Funny you mention this....

We recently had a variation of 'Negative' targets in our local match. The match director said he couldn't sleep one night and thought of a way to torment us LoL.

The variation was:

Cut upper A/B zone off a classic target. Cut outline of upper A/B zone in the lower A zone of a no-shoot. Tape upper A/B zone into no-shoot cutout. IOW - Picture a full no-shoot with a brown upper A/B zone pasted in the center.

This gave Open shooters fits on the close ones, and increased the 'groan' factor... It also wasn't for practice, but puts an emphasis on shooting A's!

Couldn't resist this... In "our" experiment I observed the following:

1-More white tape used.

2-Same time walking to target; See observation 1

3-Accuracy rewarded

4-Hits outside target VERY visible

Kruger, this is in no way intended to pick at you... It's late and I am getting delirious!

[kruger]

We recently had a variation of 'Negative' targets in our local match. The match director said he couldn't sleep one night and thought of a way to torment us LoL.

The variation was:

Cut upper A/B zone off a classic target. Cut outline of upper A/B zone in the lower A zone of a no-shoot. Tape upper A/B zone into no-shoot cutout. IOW - Picture a full no-shoot with a brown upper A/B zone pasted in the center.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind for the next stage I have to design. I'll be sure to let everyone at the match know you gave me the idea.

Kruger, this is in no way intended to pick at you... It's late and I am getting delirious!

I don't feel picked on.

The impetus for the negative targets is that I usually practice after work (range doesn't open until after work starts for me). The range also closes at sunset, and with the onset of winter, the amount of time I have to practice gets _small_. I don't have a plate rack w/ a pull rope reset. So, I'm usually left with either taping, or resetting steel. Leaving the A zone untaped was distracting as I kept on seeing the holes as I focused on the target before shifting focus to the sights.

Anyway, it doesn't look like it is a common practice.

As for calling the shot, how precise do I need to be? If I can accurately call the shot and know that it was an 'A', 'C', or those other two possibilities that shall not be named, do I need more information? If I do need more information, how much more (i.e. 2 inch, 1/2 inch, 1/32 inch) and why?

Respectfully,

Mark Kruger

[DogmaDog]

Haven't done it, but sounds like a good idea.

You could just use big brown paper patches cut from grocery bags and slap 'em on the back of the target, to cover the cut-out A-zone, and that would mitigate the disadvantages, and reduce the taping (one patch every 20 hits or so??)

DD

[Steve Moneypenny]

here is the huge problem you are no longer able to call your shot on anything remotely looking like something you will see on a match. as stated shoot the A todeath don't try to put bullets through there.. not to mention you might just miss the whole target and call it as an A... yes i have done that quit snickering guys....

[LPatterson]

I too use the grocery bag trick but I use a target with a cut out A zone & draw the border on the gocery bag. These I tape over an old full size target & staple over when I miss the grocery bag and have to tape the full target. I also have a piece of steel the size of an A zone that I use for draw & shoot drills, after a mag or so I repaint. It is especially good for 25 yard group shooting.

[kevin c]

You could just use big brown paper patches cut from grocery bags and slap 'em on the back of the target, to cover the cut-out A-zone, and that would mitigate the disadvantages, and reduce the taping (one patch every 20 hits or so??)

Another alternative is to pick up a roll of masking paper from a paint store or Home Depot. It comes in 6" and 12" widths, perfect for A or A/C zones. Precut some to length and you're good to go. If you want to get crazy, you can even crease the 12" at what would be the edges of the A box, simulating the perforations (not needed if put on the back of your "negative target").

I actually find it helpful for me to go and patch hits, though. For instance, in drills I tend to pull shots a bit to the left, but only occasionally wide enough to land outside the A zone. I might not notice that if I used a negative target. I guess I'd like to be able to call the shots/confirm my calls on the shots more closely than A vs non A.

Also, I find the time patching a good time to think about what I just did in the past 5/10/15 shots, and what I'd like to next to improve on it.

But for reaction drills, Bill drills, and similar stuff, replacement centers or negative targets might work well.

Just my take on it.

Kevin

Edited October 30, 2005 by kevin c

[Paradox]

Mark,

Glad I could help!

In regard to calling shots - With further refinement you can call the shot in generalities, but calling to a fraction of an inch isn't required (for our sport). With experience your shot calling will improve but in my opinion there really isn't a standard of "I can call a shot to 1/2"". The targets we shoot at just aren't that small.

If I have confidence in my pistol and ammo, I know that if the sights are in alignment when the shot breaks I will get a hit. The shot calling more often than not lets me know that A) I should have waited for proper alignment, and the direction the shot went. The experience will tell you about how far it would be from your point of aim. A good eye opening drill is to intentionally 'align' the FS on the far left/right - up/down portions of the rear notch at various distances.

At a certain point the shot calling will (should) become reflexive instead of a concious thought. For example, if I screw up my grip on the draw I will often end up with my trigger finger rubbing the frame which pushes my shots to the left. After I realized this, the recovery time became reflexive and I could correct the grip in fractions of a second.

Shooting the plate rack or a Steel Challenge match will test your ability to call shots. If you are waiting to hear or watch the plates, there is much room for improvement.

The short answer is, accuracy accuracy accuracy. Shoot some groups. See if you can remember where the sights were when the shot broke. Everything builds on a foundation, and shot calling (again in my opinion) is NOT one of the pillars... I had to learn what a proper sight picture was before I could call the shot.

Shot calling came to me without 'trying' to look for it (sound familiar ). I practiced shooting groups at 3x5 note cards at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, 25, and 35 yards. Then I started doing El Prez's using the cards as targets. (Can try that with draws...etc..). In a relatively short period of time, my confidence grew leaps and bounds. Plus they have to be some of the least expensive scaled down targets I have found. Try stapling some note cards width side up on a piece of card board and try walk back drills. They take all of a second to replace, and best of all - no taping. Ohh yeah, and about a ba-gillion dry fire draws to be comfortable with my grip, reloads, and transitions.

Whoa... that got long winded.

Short answer - try shooting some 3"x5" note cards stapled to your targets and a plate rack at varying distances LoL

Edited to note: is supposed to be a B )

Edited October 31, 2005 by Paradox

[benos]

The disadvantages appear to be:

-I can't confirm the call on the shots inside the targetted area.

That's the reason to not do it. You'll improve faster if remember the call you made for every shot you fire, then compare it to where the shot actually hit the target.

be

[Bigbadaboom]

I draw a 3" circle inside the lower A-zone and only tape the hits outside of it.