infinity Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Jasonub, how many coils do u have on those mags that failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) I am just curious about something. Why all this fuss and expense to get one more round? No, it's just a question of "can we?" and "will it work?". This sport is all about experimenting to find what works. No, it will not likely save me a reload. I would like to have a couple of reloadable 21 round "big sticks" just for the hell of it. If it don't work, lesson learned. In IPSC standard it is a bigger deal, but again not much. I just returned from the range and all the mags work, perfectly, and with some force the 18 rounders lock in the gun. With a little dremeling I will have a bevy (not my word) of 18 + 1 reloadable and two 19+1 reloadable IPSC mags. They load as easy as an SV / Dawson with one less round in it. The 21 round "quest" is just funnin' around. I'm one of those guys that wants to know. As an aside these mags may make a good alternate for Para guys. Edited June 21, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 10 coils ismi spring. problem in match conditions is that you leave the bullets in for a long time. in practice you load 19 and then shoot it immediately. in matches, you wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinity Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 try using wolff extra power springs...mine hasn't failed me with 9 coils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Guys, not trying to be a thread nazi, but please pm or start a new thread, let's stay on the SPS in S_I thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) dirtypool, the mag that i have is an sps thats not reloadable thus were still on the sps mag topic. I just want to state what happened on a major match that cost me a lot due to that mag. I landed 10th place at 89. something % which is bad for me. anyway sorry if i hijacked the topic. Edited June 22, 2006 by Jasonub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ok fair enough, sorry for griping. I have a Brazilian 19 rounder that is a load and shoot, and often I load it going to the line. I'm hoping the SPS mags are better, but we'll see, research is still underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I have a Brazilian 19 rounder that is a load and shoot, and often I load it going to the line. you mean you load it only when your going to the line? Did you try to leave it loaded for 2 hours or so then shoot it? I would love a 19 round mag but will not use it in a major match. Then again, if i load it when i am 3 shooters down maybe i wont have a problem I saw a friend of mine who won the recent level 3 in question. He has the sps mag with a larger basepad to fit the box and cut not 1 but 2 coils. It is the new follower where the spring goes in the follower ala grams. Man the spring is short! but he said he is still testing it and so far no problems. Its 19 rounds and is reloadable. Ill wait till his experiments are done. This weekend there is a level 1 match. Ill use the 19 round but will load it only when im 3 shooters down. If it fails, ill dump it altogether. But if it does work, then further experiments will be done. Ill post it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinity Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) It is the new follower where the spring goes in the follower ala grams. What folower? is this the one? DP, sorry to for asking the questions, hope u don't mind...i'm also planning to get some SPS mags for my S_I that's why i'm also researching everything about it...thanks!! Edited June 23, 2006 by infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) My two brazilians have never let me down (knock wood) but I don't play with them for practice. I test fire them at 19+1 once in a while and then I'll load them two to three shooters down. They work great and have more room in the box than an SV / Dawson. Thus my focus on a 21 rounder rather than a 19 rounder, but once I find things out about 21+1 I may fiddle with seeing how easy I could get a 19 rounder. The Spring does extend quite far out when you take the basepad off. I bet cutting a couple of coils off would get you close. Yes, the follower on my new SPS mags hook into the spring ala Grams, but they are orange. Edited June 23, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I guess I am at a loss as to why your mags don't work if you load them too far in advance. It is not the long constant compression cycle that weakens the springs. It is the compression then release then compression then release and so on of use. I always load my mags a day or two before even going to the match as it is one less thing to mess with match day. I have never had a problem with any of my mags and they include Para 9mm and 45, SIG 9mm and 45, and my Wilson 1911 mags. Usually, when I get home from a match, I clean the mags and load them back up, ready for the next match, and it may be 2 weeks away. Never a problem. When in LE, my SIG mags would stay loaded for a month at a time and only unloaded when shot or for cleaning. Never had a problem in several years of this routine. If your mags cannot be trusted to work unless loaded right before shooting, you have a serious magazine problem. I would hope this doesn't mean you don't have your CCW mag loaded until you need them...................... Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Guess I must be blessed in some way ... My (already described "ad nauseam") homemade 19 rounder with SPS 126mm tube and Wolff spring is in use since 2 years right now, has been used in ALL training sessions as well as being loaded for the whole 8+ hours (with 18 rounds, I add the 19th before going on deck) of every match I attended, and have never experienced a jam. I do however change its spring at the beginning of each shooting year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) If your mags cannot be trusted to work unless loaded right before shooting, you have a serious magazine problem.I would hope this doesn't mean you don't have your CCW mag loaded until you need them...................... Craig I'm soooooooo tactical, I don't even load the rounds for CCW until I need them. That's why I need a 1050; speed. Due to increasing beaurocracy and red tape, I have more down time between he initiation of a hostile encounter and the beginning of the actual shooting. And while else is standing around telling mamma jokes and posturing, I load. If I can buy myself 15-25 seconds at the beginning of any gunfight, experience and statistics have shown that I can load enough ammo on the 1050 I pull behind me in a wagon to overwhelm any potential adversary and have time to chamber check the first mag before hostilities. Edited June 23, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 If I can buy myself 15-25 seconds at the beginning of any gunfight, experience and statistics have shown that I can load enough ammo on the 1050 I pull behind me in a wagon to overwhelm any potential adversary and have time to chamber check the first mag before hostilities. Hey hey hey enough of that tacticle stuff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 LMAO, sorry, a breaker popped, it's been too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 If your mags cannot be trusted to work unless loaded right before shooting, you have a serious magazine problem. I would hope this doesn't mean you don't have your CCW mag loaded until you need them...................... Craig I'm soooooooo tactical, I don't even load the rounds for CCW until I need them. That's why I need a 1050; speed. Due to increasing beaurocracy and red tape, I have more down time between he initiation of a hostile encounter and the beginning of the actual shooting. And while else is standing around telling mamma jokes and posturing, I load. If I can buy myself 15-25 seconds at the beginning of any gunfight, experience and statistics have shown that I can load enough ammo on the 1050 I pull behind me in a wagon to overwhelm any potential adversary and have time to chamber check the first mag before hostilities. Pretty good..... Seriously though, are guys really having problems with mags that have been fully loaded for a while? It it an STI/SV type mag thing? Or is it with mags that have had the springs cut so much to gain an extra round that they start to fail prematurely if loaded for very long? I have never had such problems with any of my mags. Same for any of my rifle mags that have been loaded for extended periods (in some cases years). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 If your mags cannot be trusted to work unless loaded right before shooting, you have a serious magazine problem. I would hope this doesn't mean you don't have your CCW mag loaded until you need them...................... Craig I'm soooooooo tactical, I don't even load the rounds for CCW until I need them. That's why I need a 1050; speed. Due to increasing beaurocracy and red tape, I have more down time between he initiation of a hostile encounter and the beginning of the actual shooting. And while else is standing around telling mamma jokes and posturing, I load. If I can buy myself 15-25 seconds at the beginning of any gunfight, experience and statistics have shown that I can load enough ammo on the 1050 I pull behind me in a wagon to overwhelm any potential adversary and have time to chamber check the first mag before hostilities. Pretty good..... Seriously though, are guys really having problems with mags that have been fully loaded for a while? It it an STI/SV type mag thing? Or is it with mags that have had the springs cut so much to gain an extra round that they start to fail prematurely if loaded for very long? I have never had such problems with any of my mags. Same for any of my rifle mags that have been loaded for extended periods (in some cases years). Craig The real "bear" is the lenght limitation, eg: 140 & 170 and the desire to push the laws of nature to impose our "high round count" regardless. The life/service expectancy of a "residual" strenght left in springs after repeated compression to their "binding" limits and beyond untill they becomes unreloadable, will expedite the life span of this residual/stretched strenght to the point that the normal shrinking of the coil by normal fatigue will be increased considerably by repeated exposure/use at these extreme compressions. The longer a coil spring remains from its binding compression limits, the longer it will retain its full extended strenght capabilities. But, for sure not in this game where equipment of all kinds gets pushed to the max. Most competitive shooters go through a lot of replacement springs as a result of overextending/abusing their springs limits. Nothing new here. If anything it is a great testing ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 if one does not cut coils, the mag spring will work especially the ismi spring. I have a house mag 140mm loaded with 20 rounds and left for 2 years. used that mag at practice a few days ago and it works without a hitch. When you start cutting coils things go wrong quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Guys, FWIW I have 5 plain old STI Mags.. all use Dawson +1's & Grams Follower/Spring kit for the STI... I get 20 rounds of 40 in each (very tight but works) 19 reloadable. This gives me 20 plus 1 in the tube....that works every time....all the mags on my belt at the start carry 19 rounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Guys, FWIW I have 5 plain old STI Mags.. all use Dawson +1's & Grams Follower/Spring kit for the STI... I get 20 rounds of 40 in each (very tight but works) 19 reloadable. This gives me 20 plus 1 in the tube....that works every time....all the mags on my belt at the start carry 19 rounds... I assume these are 140mm mags? The 19 round mags that is difficult to make is the ipsc mag which is 124mm with a plus 1 wedge base pad. sti tubes in my experience have a little less space than svi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 (edited) OK, to clarify and keep us on topic, the discussion is about the possibility of a 21+1 USPSA legal "140" mag and / or a 19+1 round IPSC Standard legal mag by going to SPS tubes. My UNMODIFIED SPS IPSC STANDARD mags hold 18+1 reloadable. For reference, Reg'lar ole SV "140mm" tubes (actually more like 137mm) with uncut Gramms spring follower combo, and a Dawson +1 will give 20+1 and be "140 legal". Reg'lar ole SV IPSC tubes with Grams SF combos cut two coils and with a Dawson +1 IPSC box "wedge" pad will hold 17+1 reloadable or 18 non reloadable. I'm working on the 140's and should have more news within a week. Edited June 24, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Bump, I finally got some pads taking things right to the 141..... limit, and they hold 21 and I can lock it in the gun. I'll test them tomorrow to see how they feed. I may play around with clipping coils to get them more easily reloadable, but if they function well sans tweaking, why mess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) Update: I tried to assemble a reloadable 19-rounder (IPSC-box compliant, see my previous post) with previously described configuration, using Arredondo mag springs, for a teammate who didn't happen to have Wolffs. No way. I can get a reloadable 18-rounder, but no luck with the 19th round. I even tried switching the spring alone in my 19 rounder mag, but no good luck either. I have then closely examined the two springs (Wolff and Arredondo) side by side, and what came out is that the Arredondo spring has a different coils shape, but most important is that it features one less "singlestack" coil on top of the "doublestack" ones (if you get what I mean). This leads to a different stacking of the packed coils, that takes up more room inside the mag tube, preventing the 19th round to be squeezed in. Besides that, it seems that this different stacking is causing severe rounds hang-up in the middle of the tube: upon stripping some 5/6 rounds from the lips, the spring binds somewhere (it doesn't extend) and the rounds inside the tube get loose until you heavily tap the whole mag on the palm of your hand. So, be adviced that my set-up works with Wolff springs, but might not with different ones. Edited July 5, 2006 by Skywalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So far......new mags run perfectly Charge 1, lock 21 more in the gun. Kick AZZZZ. I'll try them for the first time in a match this weekend. Haven't really played with the IPSC box legal ones yet, they run fine, but I haven't made any progress on getting 19 in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 So, what's the secret recipe??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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