Are Afterrmarket Barrels For Glock Worth It?

[Newguy]

I have a new G34 for production with a Sotelo trigger (which I'm really pleased with). Although I like the Glock, I'm not happy with its accuracy, especially compared to my 1911s/2011s. Bench-rested at 20 yds using WWB ammo the G34 doesn't print especially good groups.

I won't be using the gun with lead bullets or reloads, only factory ammo. So, it doesn't matter if the barrel can shoot lead. The two barrels I'm looking at are the pre-fit Storm Lake and KKM. For the gun's intended use -- occassional production -- and my skill level, a fitted Bar-Sto isn't cost-effective.

I've been trying to make sense whether these two aftermarket barrels will increase accuracy, and by how much. I'm reading mixed reviews. Some people are saying they see significantly increased accuracy, while others say they don't see a real difference. What's the real story? Is it worth the investment?

[Nik Habicht]

I have a new G34 for production with a Sotelo trigger (which I'm really pleased with). Although I like the Glock, I'm not happy with its accuracy, especially compared to my 1911s/2011s. Bench-rested at 20 yds using WWB ammo the G34 doesn't print especially good groups.

I won't be using the gun with lead bullets or reloads, only factory ammo. So, it doesn't matter if the barrel can shoot lead. The two barrels I'm looking at are the pre-fit Storm Lake and KKM. For the gun's intended use -- occassional production -- and my skill level, a fitted Bar-Sto isn't cost-effective.

I've been trying to make sense whether these two aftermarket barrels will increase accuracy, and by how much. I'm reading mixed reviews. Some people are saying they see significantly increased accuracy, while others say they don't see a real difference. What's the real story? Is it worth the investment?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a complicated answer: A perfectly fit barrel, with perfectly built ammo that that barrel likes to shoot, can make a substantial difference. If, however, you're going to shoot factory only, find a load the stock barrel shoots well, and then buy several cases with the same lot number ---- because six months from now, Winchester might be using a different powder blend or bullet in that White Box load, and it might shoot great. Bottom line, if you're not reloading, try different ammo. If you can't find anything that will group sufficiently, then it's time for an aftermarket barrel....

[Derek45]

If you want better accuracy, I would skip any "pre-fit" barrel.

The key to accuracy is a quality hand fitted barrel.

[cpty1]

I wouldn't necessarily say a stock barrel isn't accurate based on firing only one type of ammo through it. Generally, you can experiment with several different loads and find quite a difference in the way one may group as compared to the other. Based on the availability and cost of WWB, one would be quite lucky if that was the load their gun liked the best. However, IMO, PPC type accuracy is not required for 98% of USPSA type shooting. Maybe shoot WWB for general shooting and matches, but find another factory load that groups better and use that for the few times when more accuracy is required.

[SRT Driver]

Keep in mind a Glock is not a finely fitted work of art..it is a service pistol that was designed to run all of the time. It was designed to work in the rain, dust, mud, snow, etc. And they do!

Fitting anything to a Glock is kind of an oxymoron or an excercise in futility at best. Fitting requires tight tolerances. Glocks fit together and that's about it.

A Glock will never attain the level of accruracy found in a custom 1911 regardless of what you do to it, IMHO. Rumors of 1" accruracy at 50 yards with a fitted Glock barrel are many. OK, I don't doubt anyone.

But what do you really need? The A-Zone is 11" X 6". And at $300 or so, your could almost buy another one, a good trigger, or more ammo to practice with.

If your Glock will shoot 2-3" at 25 yards, it's a good one. I have a KKM in my G34. The accuracy is not any better than the stock barrel but it is easier on brass. Is that a benefit? Sure. Would I do it again? Probably not.

[vluc]

What are you hoping to achieve?

If you look at the target areas in the game we play, well...two "A" hits that overlap dead center score the same as two "A" hits at opposite ends of the scoring area on paper.

The steel we shoot is not so narrow, nor so far away, that you can't consistently tag it with a stock barrel.

I find the stock G34 perfectly fine for the game.

In the G22 I'm playing with for Ltd and L-10, I'm getting an aftermarket barrel for the case support on the .40. The stock shoots very well as is with factory, but I intend to relaod and want that extra comfort.

Don't fall into the "get what so and so gets"...look around, see/know what it is you want to get out of it, then decide from there.

[Clay1]

Had my stock barreled G34 at the range the other day shooting off of sand bags at 50 yards. Three shot groups not 10 shot groups went into an average of 2 1/2". This is with CCI Blazer, 115 gr ammo that I buy from Natchez at $4.77/box. Try some your gun might like it too.

My eyes aren't what they use to be but the gun shoots well enough that I find no need for another barrel unless you reload and wanted to shoot lead. At the prices that I buy factory ammo I have no need of that option. I have shot several thousand rounds of CCI Blazer this year and am very happy with it.

Rick

[Nik Habicht]

Keep in mind a Glock is not a finely fitted work of art..it is a service pistol that was designed to run all of the time.  It was designed to work in the rain, dust, mud, snow, etc.  And they do! 

Fitting anything to a Glock is kind of an oxymoron or an excercise in futility at best.  Fitting requires tight tolerances.  Glocks fit together and that's about it.

A Glock will never attain the level of accruracy found in a custom 1911 regardless of what you do to it, IMHO.  Rumors of 1" accruracy at 50 yards with a fitted Glock barrel are many. OK, I don't doubt anyone. 

But what do you really need?  The A-Zone is 11" X 6".  And at $300 or so, your could almost buy another one, a good trigger, or more ammo to practice with. 

If your Glock will shoot 2-3" at 25 yards, it's a good one.  I have a KKM in my G34.  The accuracy is not any better than the stock barrel but it is easier on brass.  Is that a benefit? Sure. Would I do it again?  Probably not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't tell the people at Bar-Sto, lest they show you one of the 6" top ends for the G21. Once you shoot it, you'll want one.....

O.K. --- that was an extreme example, most Glock mods won't work as well as that one....

[Joe D]

Here's a group one of my G35s shot while working up a load. This is just an average group. Both of my G35s will shoot better with "pet" loads. Group was shot at 25 yds.

All I use are stock barrels.

[Precision40]

I bought a KKM barrel from Brownells and can't say I notice any major difference in accuracy, my groups aren't any better, but their not any worse either. I shoot lead occasionally and that's the only reason I bought one.

I've dealt with several KKM barrels and have never had any problems with them being out of spec or requiring any gunsmith fitting. If you want one, go for it, but you'll probably find it doesn't shoot much better than a stock barrel, especially if your shoting WWB

[Newguy]

Thanks of the input. The consensus seems to be that I'd be wasting my money. Apparently no one saw a major accuracy increase using a pre-fitted barrel. Guess I'll spend the $100+ somewhere else.

[OpnBlstr]

If you look at the target areas in the game we play, well...two "A" hits that overlap dead center score the same as two "A" hits at opposite ends of the scoring area on paper.

Yeah but if my pistol shoots a smaller group than yours then my A zone during a match is statistically larger which means:

a ) Assuming two equal shooting performances the more accurate pistol will win the match

-or-

b ) I can shoot faster by giving up shooter induced accuracy - since my target is statistically larger - which translates into a higher score winning the match

On the Glock, if your gun is brand spankin' new, don't judge accuracy until at least 1000 rounds have passed through the barrel. They get more accurate as the barrel burnishes and everything settles into place on the gun.

Edited October 20, 2005 by OpnBlstr

[boo radley]

I have a pair of KKM barrels coming for my G34/35.

I'm reasonably pleased with the accuracy of the 35. I haven't shot for pure

groups in some time, but when I first got it, it was shooting 2-3" 25 no problem

from the stock barrel. The KKM barrel is so that I can shoot lead SWC's.

I miss 'em from my .45 -- there were good for an extra 10 points a match,

I swear.

The 34 has never seemed particularly accurate, IMO -- *maybe* 3" at 25

with CCI Blazer, what it seems to like best, and significantly larger groups

with anything else. Be interesting to see what happens here, with the KKM

[SRT Driver]

Assuming two equal shooting performances the more accurate pistol will win the match

Really!

b ) I can shoot faster by giving up shooter induced accuracy - since my target is statistically larger - which translates into a higher score winning the match

Your pistol shoots .5" at 25 yards, you should be able to shoot 300% faster than me and my pistol which only shoot a 2" group at 25 yards? This is still leaving a 3x margin for error given a 6" A Zone.

Edited October 21, 2005 by SRT Driver

[cautery]

I'm not going to go into any great detail, but CERTAIN drop-in/semi drop-in barrels do tend to increase accuracy. Match a good aftermarket drop-in with a proper match reload, and you can do better.

But a properly done hand fitted barrel will make a world of difference in group size...

Ideally (with respect to barrels), start with a smith fitted barel that is short chambered (preferably just roughed out short of the headspacing shoulder with no taper cut forward).

Have the barrel fit to your slide...

Figure out if the magazine is the limiting factor for OAL... In 40S&W it is... Determine what the max OAL your mag can reliably load, OR what the max OAL you need for your application.

Get the standard SAAMI spec drawing for the roughing/finish reamer used in your barrel. Then mod it to reflect the lead you need to make your OAL with about a 0.001-0.003" jump to the tapered lands... This is the hard part... AND it's bullet specific... Unless you go with a much larger jump...

Order the reamer set from Pacific Tool and Die....

Get your smith or someone COMPETENT to cut your chamber, and finish the barrel off... BE SURE TO mark the barrel as a shot chambered barrel somehow.

Work up a load for the gun... Test, re-work, test, rework, test... until you get the accuracy you are looking for...

Or blow it all off and just shoot...

Or buy a custom 2011...

[Joe D]

Most folks don't really understand how a Glock barrel locks up. If you will notice that the stock barrel returns to the same spot vertically every time. With slide forward press the barrel down. The barrel will "spring" back to the same spot every time. I have checked this with a dial indicator. The only variation is the lateral barrel movement at the rear. I will compare several Glocks before I purchase to find one with the tightest fit in this area.

My wife's G34 is exceptionally accurate. 5 shot quarter size groups at 25 yds are common.

A 1911 will benefit from a properly fitted "match" barrel. It is a waste of money with a Glock.

BTW the lead bullet issue with stock Glock barrels is just another internet myth/wives tale/urban legend. We have fired thousands of lead bullets through our Glocks. Use quality bullets and don't try to drive them at insane velocities.

Most shooters do not take the time to develop a load that is accurate. It requires checking various OALs, bullet weights and brands, powders and powder charges, crimp tension and a host of other things.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Joe D

[Joe D]

One more thing is most shooters don't know how to shoot groups from a rest. It is much harder than you think. I change my front sight to a thinner one (.090") I made to get a more precise sight picture when shooting from a rest. The gun must be allowed to recoil the same every time. Don't try to hold it down.

[cautery]

So, a properly fitted barrel is a waste of money? OK..

So, what if you don't HAVE that 1 in 10 or 1 in 100 Glocks, that shoots those "5 shot quarter size groups at 25 yds "? Are you saying that it is a waste of money to get a barrel fit so that it DOESN'T drift laterally at lockup?

No, getting a barrel that has nothing but a long barrel hood is probably a half measure. But getting one where there is extra material available in all the critical dimensions... And then fit the barrel to your particular slide...

I don't see how that could possibly be a waste of money.

[boo radley]

I will compare several Glocks before I purchase to find one with the tightest fit in this area.

I did this when I bought my G35 at a gunshow. There were three to choose from. I didn't know about your exact test, but I did buy the one that seemed the "tightest." I like to think it makes a difference.

My wife's G34 is exceptionally accurate. 5 shot quarter size groups at 25 yds are common.

A 1911 will benefit from a properly fitted "match" barrel. It is a waste of money with a Glock.

That is both an extraordinary pistol, and uncommonly good shooting -- you must admit.

I have a pistol that can, in fact, shoot 1" groups or less @25y -- a stock Kimber Custom II. I know, because I've done it, but I can count the times on one hand, and probably still have extra fingers for future use.

Sitting down, and shooting her cold, my groups are < 3"; when I get warmed up and really focus -- and this isn't something I can maintain long -- the groups shrink to approximately 1.5-2". Only on some very rare occasions, when everything is perfect, are they better. So I know this pistol outshoots me.

The G34, however, I can easily outshoot. Try as I might (and yes, this is with a thin Dawson F/O sight post), I am orders of magnitudes away from "quarter size groups." I'm hoping the new barrel will improve things. I am eager to find out, and hope you're not right -- that I wasted my money.

[Clay1]

I was going to mention earlier about group shooting, that having someone else that is an accomplished group shooter to shoot your gun is a good option. I have two G34s and one is more accurate than the other.

[Joe D]

Guys, the target we shoot is huge. We are not using these guns for Bench Rest competition. I have never seen a shooter move up in class due to the installation of a "match" barrel in a Glock. I am yet to own a Glock that would not group 2" or better at 25 yds with proper loads.

BTW the best group out of my wife's G34 was shot at American Classic Marksman in Norcross, Ga. 5 shots at 25 yds could be covered by a nickel. I do have witnesses.

Load was 3.0 gr of Titegroup with a 147 gr West Coast bullet.

Edited October 21, 2005 by Joe D

[Clay1]

One more comment about group size. 5, 5 shot groups should be shot and group size should be averaged to see what a gun can do for performance. The best one time group of 3 shots that happen to cluster together is not a true indicator of accuracy.

Rick

[Sean Gaines]

its not the bow and arrow its the indian. I personally have the drop in kkm barrel in my gun. Works great, so far so good. the only reason I bought the kkm barrel was because I wanted to shoot reloads through it and wanted a more supported chamber. the factory barrel that I had in before worked great also, when I was shooting factory remmington rounds. But the unsupported and loose chamber fit, made me a little cautious, especially hearing all the "kaboom stories". If you plan on reloading than get the barrel, you may want to shoot lead through your barrel and supposedly a no, no through the factory barrel. I have seen people shoot lead through their glock barrels, I wouldn't do it. too many other people that I have heard say not to. for peace of mine just buy the kkm barrel, you will be happy with it. Barsto I hear is a really good expensive barrel, which requires custom fitting. I cant really say much about the barsto, because never shot a gun with it, so I cant tell you if its more accurate, or more reliable. like a post earlier stated the glock is not a finely fited work of art. which I agree the gun is meant be a reliable combat weapon. Its meant to take abuse, and still go bang when needed. But, myself and alot of people have brought the gun into the uspsa/ipsc arena and the gun has been very succesful. As far as accuraccy I have been pleased usually get <1" groups out at 15 yards with my kkm barrel. we dont have a 25 yard at the shooting range that we go to, so I cant tell you what I would do at 25 yards. But I think accuaracy is very important in this sport and dont let anyone tell you that the targets A zone is so big that you dont have to be that accurate. how are you supposed to call your shots effectively? Plus there are other targets and different scenarios, that may require a precise hit. no. You want to know where that bullet is going the second you pull the trigger and i think you will be happy with and aftermarker kkm barrel if shooting reloads. If not shooting relaods stay with factory barrel, it will work fine.

[boo radley]

Had two KKM barrels arrive this week, and last night got a chance to try 'em. The .40S&W was brand-new, for my G35, and the KKM barrel I bought for my G34 was "as-new" with only 200 rounds through it.

Both barrels dropped in, and I had no problems -- shot about 100 9mm rounds, and 250 .40 rounds.

Started off shooting my usual group target: paper plates @25y. If the .40 KKM barrel was a more accurate than my factory barrel, I didn't notice. The 9x19 barrel seemed a *little* bit more accurate than the stock barrel in the G34, but this could have been wishful thinking, since I so badly want this gun to shoot well. Shot about 4 groups with each gun, then moved to something else.

Bottom line, at least so far, I didn't get the impression that I'd hit either pistol with a magic wand. G35 was pretty accurate before, and so it remains. G34 less so, which I believe is a combination of gun and shooter -- I really fight the stock trigger, compared to the Ralph Sotelo job in the 35.

It will be nice shooting SWC's out of the 40, and not worrying so much about reusing cases.

Oh, and the KKM barrels sure look elegant in the guns.

[Mad Scientist]

Hey Joe how are things these days??

I read thru the posts and I agree that most guys will see no benifit from a fitted barrel

There are a lot of factors that contribute to acuracy .triger control ,sight alignment hold , grip tension ,etc. I fit alot of barrels these days and do think that acuracy is improved if you can use it efectivly.

.5 inches at 25 is the exception as most group around 1.5 to 2 at 25 off the bags with a stock barrel and proper hand loads.

one gun that comes to mind as the most acurate I have shot consistantly shot into one raged hole at 15 y off hand. this was with a stock barrel that was unusualy tight side to side and verticaly. this tells me that fit plays a roll in groups.

For me the fitted barrels do a couple of things. They give me confidence to say the gun will shoot as good as the guy/ lady holding on to it and alows me to control the formulation of the action. I.e. head space, free bore, chamber tightness etc.

these controls alow me to take the triger and slide tightness to the next level.

so in all respects a drop in barell that is designed to fit in all slides and with all frames cant thereticly be as acurate as a fit barrel . I would be happy with as good of acuracy as stock . On the other hand If I fit up a barrel and it will not shoot under an 1 at25 Then something is wrong with the barrel or operator .

one E.G> is my personal open gun . after I built it I sent my son to camp. the instructor shooting prone off bags repetedly put rounds thru the same hole ar 50 yards. When my son told me I blew it off as his imagination but when th instructor varified the story I took amuch harder look at the way that particular gun was built and took pen in hand and try to duplicate that fit in every gun.

If you can afford the fit get it . if you cant dont worry about it . Johnnie