Draw Stroke Help

[waktasz]

22 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Most of us in A-class or so?

We’re now fighting to learn to bend our knees more and shoot & move from a lower stance. For entries, exits, and shooting on the move? A slightly uncomfortable amount of bend in the knees is a good thing. Might as well work on a low, forward stance right off the bat.

 

THIS. 

[MemphisMechanic]

6 hours ago, Flea said:

 

I tried what you suggested regarding getting low enough in your stance to not see your toes in your lead foot and I must say it feels unnaturally low. To the point of it being hard to hold that position without feeling tension in the quads (which I gather isn't a great thing to have). I'm not the strongest guy in the world but I'm far from the weakest.

In general... if your thighs aren’t burning, you aren’t as low as you could be. And probably should be.

 

If your hands and forearms aren’t burning from gripping the gun, you’re similarly leaving quite a bit of recoil control on the table. Until your muscles grow used to the effort, dryfire practice should pretty much destroy your forearms in 10 minutes or less. If not, grip harder.

 

(See the GM’s reply above mine, with his enthusiastic agreement.) 

Edited May 8, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[SGT_Schultz]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:08 PM, mvmojo said:

 the gun should come up higher before punching out to the sight picture.  You're doing what I call "bowling", drawing the gun and moving it up at the same time you're moving it out. 

 

You mean like how Ben Stoeger draws?

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

On 5/1/2020 at 12:31 PM, Flea said:

I'm not a competitive shooter and have only been shooting since Dec and have limited time with a holster. I've taken a draw from the holster class and have gotten some further advice from some range officers.

 

I'm using an IDPA-legal holster and was trying to do the draw in around 2 to 2.5 seconds.

 

Any suggestions for improving the draw with the hope of competing in some IDPA would be greatly appreciated. Two things that stood out to me are after clearing the holster, is the gun too low, and (in the side view) I sort of rock back as I press out.

 

Don't be too mean.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you've received mostly excellent advice on the mechanics of your draw.

 

I recommend you check how far away from your body that holster rides.  IDPA rules require a dowel of a certain diameter (memory escapes me now) to not fit between you and the gun when holstered.

 

IDPA doesn't have "approved holsters".  IDPA requires that the  holster fit a certain way and your holster looks like it doesn't.

Edited May 10, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[mvmojo]

2 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You mean like how Ben Stoeger draws?

 

 

Thanks for the video!  No, I wouldn't call that "bowling".  He brings the gun up to above the diaphragm and establishes his weak hand grip before he punches out.  I'm talking more about the weak hand meeting the gun near the belly button and then coming up in an arc from that point, no punch out, just a smooth arc up to the target.  I'm not saying it can't work but I think it's harder to get on target and find the sight/dot this way.  On the other hand, I've seen shooters bring the gun all the way up to arm pit level to establish their grip and then punch out.  I've tried that and it's definitely slower for me than coming up to about the diaphragm level like in the video.  

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, mvmojo said:

Thanks for the video!  No, I wouldn't call that "bowling".  He brings the gun up to above the diaphragm and establishes his weak hand grip before he punches out.  I'm talking more about the weak hand meeting the gun near the belly button and then coming up in an arc from that point, no punch out, just a smooth arc up to the target.  I'm not saying it can't work but I think it's harder to get on target and find the sight/dot this way.  On the other hand, I've seen shooters bring the gun all the way up to arm pit level to establish their grip and then punch out.  I've tried that and it's definitely slower for me than coming up to about the diaphragm level like in the video.  

 

Bowling is bowling.  I'm not going to separate how others do it by degrees of nuance.

 

Bowling works, and it's the most efficient way to get the gun on target.  Simultaneous movement in both X and Y axis.

[mvmojo]

Seems like much about how different shooters do things differently in this game is based on degrees of nuance!  If you define bowling as simultaneous equal movement in x and y (my intent) then Stroeger definitely doesn't do that in the video.  If you don't define it as simultaneous equal movement in x and y then I'd submit that every draw would be a some form of bowling unless you draw the gun up to eye level before extending it out, i.e., all y first and then all x.  Otherwise, there's always some form of simultaneous x and y movement.  I personally think Stroeger gets the x-y ratio right in that most of his y movement is early in the draw stroke but once his weak hand meets the gun it's more x than y.  Maybe that's why he's so fast!  If that's bowling, then OK, I get it.

Edited May 10, 2020 by mvmojo

[waktasz]

3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Bowling is bowling.  I'm not going to separate how others do it by degrees of nuance.

 

Bowling works, and it's the most efficient way to get the gun on target.  Simultaneous movement in both X and Y axis.

 

That's not what bowling is. At all.

 

This is bowling
 

 

 

[anonymouscuban]

 
That's not what bowling is. At all.
 
This is bowling
 
 
 

That's a clinic on the bowling draw!

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[SGT_Schultz]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

 

That's not what bowling is. At all.

 

This is bowling
 

 

 

 

Two slight variations of the same thing.

 

I don't need to be  GM to see the similarities between his draw and Stoeger's

[mvmojo]

YES!  That's bowling.  Equal movement in x and y from the time the support hand hits the gun right out of the holster.  Great video example of what I was trying to convey.

[BoyGlock]

Equal movement in x and Y will result to a diagonal line going to the final mount w/c I believe the shortest travel from holster to the final mount. Think bowling is not. By that video example, It starts more in Y than X then a bit later it abruptly goes up so its more in X than Y. 

[waktasz]

Bowling is just lowering the gun before presenting it to the target. 

Opposite from fishing which is bringing the gun from up above the target and back down (think old cop shows or charlies angels) 

[Flea]

21 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I think you've received mostly excellent advice on the mechanics of your draw.

 

I recommend you check how far away from your body that holster rides.  IDPA rules require a dowel of a certain diameter (memory escapes me now) to not fit between you and the gun when holstered.

 

IDPA doesn't have "approved holsters".  IDPA requires that the  holster fit a certain way and your holster looks like it doesn't.

 

The dowel rule is there should be no more than 3/4" dowel width between the grip and your body. Also all of the grip from the trigger guard down has to be above the top of your belt. My  holster is sold as an "IDPA legal" holster. But when I first got it, there were spacers between the hanger and the holster which pushed the gun too far from my body. I had to take them out. The less love handle one got, the harder it is to find a holster with a hanger that will clear the IDPA rule.

[MemphisMechanic]

16 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Two slight variations of the same thing.

 

I don't need to be  GM to see the similarities between his draw and Stoeger's

Sorry. Big differnce.

 

The rest of us see it.

[SGT_Schultz]

4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Sorry. Big differnce.

 

The rest of us see it.

 

Cool, I just don't care that much.

[SGT_Schultz]

6 hours ago, Flea said:

 

The dowel rule is there should be no more than 3/4" dowel width between the grip and your body. Also all of the grip from the trigger guard down has to be above the top of your belt. My  holster is sold as an "IDPA legal" holster. But when I first got it, there were spacers between the hanger and the holster which pushed the gun too far from my body. I had to take them out. The less love handle one got, the harder it is to find a holster with a hanger that will clear the IDPA rule.

 

Looks like you're on top of it.

 

When I shoot the occasional IDPA match I use a kydex pancake holster.  Same thing I use to conceal. 

[Flea]

15 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Looks like you're on top of it.

 

When I shoot the occasional IDPA match I use a kydex pancake holster.  Same thing I use to conceal. 

 

Which one did you get? I have a 1911 4.25" gun.

[SGT_Schultz]

7 hours ago, Flea said:

 

Which one did you get? I have a 1911 4.25" gun.

 

https://kt-mech.com/im_menu_gf.html

[waktasz]

Sweet jesus Flea. Please don't buy that. 
 

[Flea]

Well I got a real timer and this is the second time using it. First reps are at 2.2 sec par time, next reps are at 1.7 sec par time and last reps are at 1.3 sec par time. Boy oh boy do I need lots of practice.