Pointing Out No-shoots?

[rtr]

Good conversation folks. Just to clarify, I did not run up to the target and point and yell about the no shoot, I was standing holding the slider with one hand with four obvious hits on it, to my left was the no shoot, I simply put my finger on it pointing to the no-shoot, I did not say a word to the RO at this time.

[XRe]

My thinking on this has changed over time... Now, I will point out my own penalties, if an RO misses them, and will attempt to make sure that the scoring has been entered correctly by stats, too. I don't want credit for something gained by dishonorable methods. I care far too much about my self-image as a sportsman.

In the past, I would not mention things and try to benefit from it - and felt like crap about it later. Funny, I never won anything by doing that, either.

Kimberkid, it's possible the shooter who was riding your butt was actually trying to help that new RO learn?? Maybe he didn't have it out for *you*, specifically, but you ended up on the receiving end either way... BTW - take a level I RO class when you can - you won't have to worry about misunderstanding the vast majority of the rules after that

[lynn jones]

only point out the no-shoot if it's your buddy's.

lynn

[Steve Moneypenny]

As a competitor we all want to win. and most to do so fairly. If i see a mike i will tell the RO, however if i don't see it. i won't just "give it" if that makes sence, i will ask for an overlay.

I have seen some new RO's that think they need to RO as a shooter, and it annoys me as both the RO and the shooter. It is questioning my integrity as a shooter and competence when RO'ing

I would suggest Everyone take an RO class for your own development, even if you never RO a single stage.

I feel every shooter should take what he earns. But should also not be criticized for knowing the rules and using them to his/her advantage whenever nessicary.

[SRT Driver]

Kimberkid, it's possible the shooter who was riding your butt was actually trying to help that new RO learn?? Maybe he didn't have it out for *you*, specifically, but you ended up on the receiving end either way...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

XRe,

I have limited experience (by choice) with the shooter in question, but I doubt he was trying to help anyone other than himself.

[XRe]

I have limited experience (by choice) with the shooter in question, but I doubt he was trying to help anyone other than himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, one of those...

[vluc]

I would suggest Everyone take an RO class for your own development, even if you never RO a single stage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

slight drift, but it should be required before getting classified. I took the ro class a few months after joining, and did not really RO until a year or so later...invaluable time. drift over

Point them out, no harm in that. Covering up hurts the competitor and the sport. Heck, I tag my shooting partners when it happens and I'm RO'ing them...and expect the same from them.

[scooterj]

Just be sure the guilty party gets the blame! The "no-shoot" may belong to one of the previous shooters. RO's must check every "no-shoot" after every shooter.

[Kimberkid]

J1B, I assure you, I thought about it. I'll point out my own errors if the RO misses it. If we both miss it, point it out quietly to an RO. If someone has to make a screaming, yelling show of it, that seems to me clear evidence that you are NOT speaking up with the intention of protecting the integrity of the sport.

Xre, I totally see how one could think this, and I would agree, however it happened on 3 different stages and as coincedience would have we just happened to be shooting the same division. It is also my personal opinion that it is not the job of the shooters to educate RO's. If an RO needs correcting on something and it can be done with class, fine, but if we all make the point to go to lengths to educate every new RO at every mistake then I doubt we will have any old RO's in the future.

Again, it isnt the penalties I care about, as I was the one that pointed it out. It isnt even the reversal of desicion so much. It is the blatant lack of class in the way it was done. If I was a new shooter, this would have been my last match ever. I got much better ways to spend my saturday than getting publicly reprimanded by an equal.

[Nik Habicht]

by an equal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If what you state is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, he's not your equal....

[Genghis]

Compare what we do to golf. You see pro golfers call penalties on themselves all the time - accidentally contacting the ball, stepping on grass causing the ball to shift, etc. Pro golfers have the highest reputation in sports for integrity. We should have the same standards. If not, then our awards don't really mean anything because they're based on dishonest scores.

[Ron Ankeny]

If not, then our awards don't really mean anything because they're based on dishonest scores.

Well said. As for integrity, where does helping a shooter attain a dishonest score fit into the equation? That's a rhetorical question btw.

[Kimberkid]

Since when is having an accurate score more important than having class? I was a person before I was a shooter. If I have to yell, scream, make a show, and embarress to have an accurate score, I'd rather have an inaccurate score. If someone wants to tease and joke with a buddy hats your business, but if I dont know you from Adam and you go out of your way to embaress me, expect for us to have a personality conflict. I have no problem taking the score I shot, but I should hope all the people I shoot with have the class to assess that score with respect.

This has already drifted too far and I am sorry for my part in that. I dont think what rtr did was really that bad, sounds as if he wasnt trying to make a big show of it. However, if it can be done quietly with respect paid to the shooter, do it. If you must get loud and embarressing, dont.

[JFD]

What rtr did was not bad at all. I'd rather have a squad full of rtr types than folks who will ignore anything that doesn't help the shooter's score.

Damned if I want to become the new owner of a NS hit that the previous shooter was responsible form (a great point that was made earlier).

Kimberkid's experience with the loud prick was unfortunate, and something I'm dumb enough to get involved in if it happened to anyone in my squad. I'm guessing you were beating him when he decided to be "helpful".

[davidball]

A couple of things to keep in mind:

1) ROs are human and make mistakes, don't see things, etc.

2) ROs are human and may have other things on their mind, particularly at a club match where they may be doing more than one thing. At my home club, I am MD, RM, squad RO and shooter AND we setup on the day we shoot. By the time the match starts I am so wound up from setup and organizing the match that my goals are to not DQ and to call a good match for the squad. Match performance is not even on the radar. I focus on that at other club matches. Add to this the fact that my son (age 13) has just started to compete which means I'm checking his equipment, his stage plan, pointing out 180 traps and just trying to be an encourager. When someone points something out to me (two alpha is actually alpha-charlie, you missed this no-shoot, etc.), I am appreciative. Fortunately , we have a great group of shooters and I can't think of one who would not accept an earned penalty.

3) ROs are human. Sometimes they have a "spat" with their spouse before they leave home to shoot or work at match . . . sometimes over the fact that they were leaving to shoot or work a match. (Not me, my wife comes along and shoots . . .of course there was that Area 6 thing when I went without her . . . another story . . .).

4) ROs are human.

My experience at major matches, as a shooter, an RO, a CRO and a RM is what has been already expressed . . . the staff has the stage organized and have a system for ensuring accurate scoring.

[John Baier]

Good post Dave

[scorch]

This also happend to me a few years ago also at a Club match. A Master class shooter who tries to game EVERY stage, and iam not kidding, shot thru a wall into a target and got an "A" hit . The RO never saw it ( trying to catch up to this hoser) just so happens as the RO is there to score the target, I was there to paste it. RO looked at the not so round hole funny and i said it not round because he shot thru the wall behind you, the RO looked and gave him a justified "mike" that cost him the win on the stage. The Gamer was pissed and grumbled about it the rest of the match . There was no spectacle just a "helpful comment" to the RO. I could not belive he was so upset. IT'S A CLUB MATCH!

I want my wins to mean something to me! So give me every miss, mike, no shoot i hit! DRIFT ON: I think if you shoot 4 no-shoots you should get four Penalties! DRIFT OFF

Edited October 13, 2005 by scorch

[George]

I whined my way outa' a well deserved penalty once. I felt bad about it immediately after signing the scoresheet. I was doing stats so I added it back onto my sheet at entry time and even initialed the change on my scoresheet. BTW, I informed the MD before making the change.

It was a club match, but I would want to feel good about my score no matter the match stature. I will never whine about anything I earn again. I may learn the hard way, but I do learn ;-)

Edited October 13, 2005 by George

[Ron Ankeny]

Since when is having an accurate score more important than having class?

I am not talking about some guy having a temper tantrum over a mistake. I am talking about folks who knowingly and with intent take action that leads to a false score. I consider that type of activity pretty low class.