Too Much Dryfire?

[rtr]

I'm a C open shooter (although should be B when the update happens)

My last match a month ago I finished second in open, 98% of a GM.

Between then and now I dryfired a bunch (or a bunch for me, maybe 5 hours total). But no live fire.

All that dryfire seems to have sped up my draw and reloads.

So at this months match I had a few misses and one no shoot, all of which came from shooting too fast and losing visual patience. I think these occurred because I thought I could shoot faster than I was actually capable of, because I knew I had sped up some of my skills (draw and reload).

So if this makes any sense, can someone else who has been at this place help me a little bit?

[Ben Stoeger]

I don't think you dry fired to much... Probobly not enough live fire though.

[j1b]

So here's the trick with dry fire. You have to be honest with yourself in dry fire. That's the only way I can think to put it. For me dry fire is dang near the same as live fire - I try to make every "shot" count and if it was a "miss" I make it up. Or if I do a run and at the end I'm like "ok, I did it in the time I wanted to but I couldn't REALLY see what I needed to" then I know that wasn't realistic.

I can do sub .7 draws all day long in dry fire or live - but I can't guarantee a hit everytime. Doing a .85 in the same type scenario (again live or dry) helps insure that I see what I need to.

You just have to be honest with yourself. The cool thing is dry firing, going out and practicing, coming home and dry firing again. You'll then begin to understand what you need to see in dry fire to insure that what you apply during live fire (match or practice) will work.

That old adage "practice makes perfect only if you practice perfectly" really rings through to me with Dry Fire.

J

[Kevin Kline]

So here's the trick with dry fire. You have to be honest with yourself in dry fire. That's the only way I can think to put it. For me dry fire is dang near the same as live fire - I try to make every "shot" count and if it was a "miss" I make it up. Or if I do a run and at the end I'm like "ok, I did it in the time I wanted to but I couldn't REALLY see what I needed to" then I know that wasn't realistic.

I can do sub .7 draws all day long in dry fire or live - but I can't guarantee a hit everytime. Doing a .85 in the same type scenario (again live or dry) helps insure that I see what I need to.

You just have to be honest with yourself. The cool thing is dry firing, going out and practicing, coming home and dry firing again. You'll then begin to understand what you need to see in dry fire to insure that what you apply during live fire (match or practice) will work.

That old adage "practice makes perfect only if you practice perfectly" really rings through to me with Dry Fire.

J

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jack,

Ive done that a few times before and you're right, I get a real sense of improvement and control. Wish I had time to do that more, but Im sometimes cut short on live fire time and want to live fire as much as I can (because I dont get enough live fire).

[Loves2Shoot]

Too much dryfire? Methinks not. More likely performance anxiety As we improve, sometimes the desire to perform better overtakes our desire to just shoot the sights.

[Jake Di Vita]

Yes you can dry fire too much....Trust me.

I've probably dry fired more than all but a handful on this forum. Too much dry fire leads to over-preperation.

[Loves2Shoot]

Explain over preperation please.

[boo radley]

RTR -- I think you ask an awesome question, or at least it sure resonates with me.

Had a miserable match, this past Saturday. For weeks prior, I did no live-fire, but tons (for me) of dry-fire, really pushing myself with par times, and some silly drills that I do.

Sunday, I went to the range, and brought the timer, and timed some Bill Drills @15y. First one, thought I saw what I needed, and was shocked to check the target and see only *two* A's. I had to throttle way back (or take more time getting a sight picture) to get all A's.

I *absolutely* believe the dry-fire practice created a huge disconnect between seeing what I thought I needed, and what I really needed.

I'm sure more experienced shooters are able to resolve the difference between dry-fire and live-fire, but for now, I'm going to take a new approach: start dry-firing with no timer, or against par times that aren't a bit edgy, holding the sights on the "A" for an eternity.

[Loves2Shoot]

I'm going to take a new approach: start dry-firing with no timer, or against par times that aren't a bit edgy, holding the sights on the "A" for an eternity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This sounds like a smart idea to me.

Edgey dryfire leads to edgy performance in my experience.

[spook]

Yes you can dry fire too much....Trust me.

I've probably dry fired more than all but a handful on this forum. Too much dry fire leads to over-preperation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So true...

I have said this before, but too much dryfire will result in a shooter competing in 2 games; shooting and dryfire.

When my dryfire ratio was too high, it did more harm than good. Now I always dryfire with the live fire in mind.

[Loves2Shoot]

There seems to be a disconnect between dryfire as a tool to train your form and get in good repetitions and "go-as-fast-as-fast-as-you-possibly-can-to-beat-some-number-you-plugged-into-your-timer."

There are times in practice to push the limits, but when you spend too much time there, it can form a lot of bad habits. Most of the time should be sent doing things correctly IMO.

[eerw]

I have found that if you dryfire too much using par times you build up a false confidence of your ability..there is no true measure if you are really setting those times..but you begin to believe you are..

if not checked by good livefire practice..you end up a match thinking you are faster than your true ability and..then the big crash...

most of my dryfire now is working on a visually patient sight picture, smooth reloads and transitions into shooting positions...very little par time stuff..

[Jake Di Vita]

The easiest way I can put over-preperation into words is to say it makes you feel TOO comforatable behind the gun.

If you don't believe me.....dry fire for 4 hours a day 7 days a week for 3 months all AFTER work and other extraneous things.....then talk to me.

[j1b]

I will again reiterate honesty.

The situations where dry fire has caused false confidence is not a function of too much dry fire, it's a function of dry firing with either the wrong goals or the wrong understanding of how that all converts to live fire.

Getting back into the game, not being able to live fire as much as I'd like, dry fire has saved my butt. And frankly, I've dry fired more than I ever would have normally. It's never cost me in a match, never compromised my ability to shoot. But then again, I never strived for a sub 3 second El Pres in dry fire. It is not realistic to expect all hits either dry or live. It would be detrimental for me to try and it would cause issues during live fire. I'm honest with myself in knowing that 1) I can't do it and 2) it doesn't matter. While I'll never be able to do that sub 3 second El Pres my goal has never been to do one - my goal has always been to shoot the best matches I can and to win as many major matches as I can. While I've not been able to win as many matches as I'd like, I feel I've been able to hold my own over the years.

Dry Fire is an art all by itself. It is worthless unless effort is put into understanding how what you see converts to what actually will happen in live fire. As long as you understand those things and are honest in your dry fire then there is no such thing as handling the gun too much.

Rtr - I would personally advise that you never be afraid of picking up the heater - whether you suit up or not. If you're thinking about shooting, pick up the gun and execute some skills. Better if you suit up. And do it as much as you want. As long as you pay close attention and you see what you need to it will do nothing but improve your skills come match day.

J

[Loves2Shoot]

JB1,

Excellent post!!!

There are many great points in his post, worth reading over and over for shooters of any level.

I would like to add one observation about dryfire. When you shoot you generally have more "tension" in your body than in dryfire. If you don't re-create that tension (firm grip, ect.) in practice, it can really screw with your live fire. It is easy to beat the buzzer doing reloads when you are super loose, add tension and recoil and the game changes.

Being honest with yourself is a great tip for more than just shooting.

[AWLAZS]

I also agree with the honesty. I have been doing a great deal of dry fire

practice. You need to remember the goal is not to beat the par timer but to smoothly perform the skill you are working on. The par is just a way to track your progress. My dry fire has made me more relaxed during live fire. Being more relaxed allows me to shoot smoother with more points.

[mcoliver]

I used to be a dry fire freak but realized it never really improved my shooting. If it did, it didn't do enough to prevent the mikes and penalties I was still getting. The biggest improvement I got with dry fire were the skills I needed to move efficiently.

Funds permitting, I'm trying to improve my shooting with live fire.

[Shooter Grrl]

All that dryfire seems to have sped up my draw and reloads.

So at this months match I had a few misses and one no shoot, all of which came from shooting too fast and losing visual patience.  I think these occurred because I thought I could shoot faster than I was actually capable of, because I knew I had sped up some of my skills (draw and reload).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problems you are having appear to be no relation whatsoever to dry firing.

.......shooting too fast and losing visual patience............

........I thought I could shoot faster than I was actually capable of...................

.........I knew I had sped up some of my skills...................

Trust and see, darlin'.