1911 Open Steel Gun

[ezra650]

So I've got a springfield 1911 loaded in 9mm that I've been shooting in limited for the past 1yr+ in steel challenge and a little uspsa single stack here and there. I've also been shooting rimfire open and loving it. I've always flirted with the idea of going open. Life and money has prevented that until now. I'm looking at my options and cost converting my 1911 into a steel challenge race gun. Here are the options I've come up with. 

 

Have a T1 barrel fitted to the gun by a smith.

 

Buy Storm Lakes threaded bushing barrel for $250 and do any further fitting myself.

 

Have a cone comp barrel fitted to the gun by a smith.

 

What option would you choose? I like the cost of the storm lake barrel, but aesthetically the gun will look pretty funky with a giant gap between the comp and slide. Cost aside I was leaning toward the T1 barrel. I'd also have the slide tri topped and possibly some other lightening. What is the going cost for this?

 

Do you guys think this is cost efficient? What am I looking at cost wise? The "other" option is just wait until I can buy/build a 2011 open gun in 9major. The upside to that is I could shoot both USPSA and SCSA competitively. But I'll need to sell my limited gun and save for a while to do so. 

 

Also what are your thoughts on doing a drill and tap for the 1911 frame DIY for the optic mount? I have a drill press and a vise. I figure the only area of concern would be keeping the holes centered on the available workspace and centered with each other? I'd be using a single side mount and slideride.

 

Overall I'm trying to discern the cost and viability of this project. One downside is if I went through with this the gun is no longer legal for single stack, not that single stack was ever my main division anyway.

 

[zzt]

Since you are concerned with budget and also usability in SS, here is what I would do.

 

Buy a Kart X-act fit, or Barsto Semi-Fit bushing barrel.  Both are really excellent barrels.  Both will come with the bottom lugs finished and link installed.  The Barsto top lugs are also complete.  You have to fit the hood on both, and file down the pads on the Kart top lugs to fit (easy).  Or, have the gunsmith who will turn the barrel down for the cone comp fit it.  The look at an EGW Ti cone comp.  Super light and effective.

 

For sights, I would definitely not frame mount them.  I'd use a dovetail adapter and mount the sight right on the slide.  Anyone who says this is not a good idea, has not done it.  I have red dot sights slide mounted on all my pistols, except the Open major ones.  My oldest 1911 45 has worn a slide mounted dot for the last 44,000 rounds with no issues whatsoever.

 

Shoot it like that for a while and decide if it is worth it to spend for slide lightening, etc.  Remember, for steel challenge there is no double tap.  So if the dot takes another .1 seconds to come back, so what.  You cannot possibly transition fast enough for that to matter a bit.

[jcc7x7]

Have BBL and comp. Fitted

Keep org bbl and bushing frt sight etc.

Holes in frame are not illegal in ss

[ezra650]

5 minutes ago, jcc7x7 said:

Have BBL and comp. Fitted

Keep org bbl and bushing frt sight etc.

Holes in frame are not illegal in ss

I could have sworn frame holes were not permitted but looking again I don't see where it is. That's good. I could just have the slide tri topped and go with that. So you are recommending against the T1/ Trubor barrel in favor of a cone comp style?

 

Any idea on cost for barrel fitting? If I sink more than $1k into this I'd rather just wait and go 2011.

9 minutes ago, zzt said:

Since you are concerned with budget and also usability in SS, here is what I would do.

 

Buy a Kart X-act fit, or Barsto Semi-Fit bushing barrel.  Both are really excellent barrels.  Both will come with the bottom lugs finished and link installed.  The Barsto top lugs are also complete.  You have to fit the hood on both, and file down the pads on the Kart top lugs to fit (easy).  Or, have the gunsmith who will turn the barrel down for the cone comp fit it.  The look at an EGW Ti cone comp.  Super light and effective.

 

For sights, I would definitely not frame mount them.  I'd use a dovetail adapter and mount the sight right on the slide.  Anyone who says this is not a good idea, has not done it.  I have red dot sights slide mounted on all my pistols, except the Open major ones.  My oldest 1911 45 has worn a slide mounted dot for the last 44,000 rounds with no issues whatsoever.

 

Shoot it like that for a while and decide if it is worth it to spend for slide lightening, etc.  Remember, for steel challenge there is no double tap.  So if the dot takes another .1 seconds to come back, so what.  You cannot possibly transition fast enough for that to matter a bit.

Not exactly cost effective for a TI comp. I'm not real interested in slide mounted optics. Just haven't had fun shooting them. I'd have to try before I buy if I went slide mounted. 

[jcc7x7]

5 hours ago, ezra650 said:

So you are recommending against the T1/ Trubor barrel in favor of a cone comp style?

 

Any idea on cost for barrel fitting? If I sink more than $1k into this I'd rather just wait and go 2011.

No trubor is a fine choice if you like the bbl and comp etc.

[jcc7x7]

5 hours ago, zzt said:

Shoot it like that for a while and decide if it is worth it to spend for slide lightening, etc.  Remember, for steel challenge there is no double tap.  So if the dot takes another .1 seconds to come back, so what.  You cannot possibly transition fast enough for that to matter a bit.

great idea!  Slide mounts work fine especially with minor loads.  I've run old delta points, FFll and lll's, Venoms and none have had a problem on 1911 slides.

Run DDP and Romeo1 on C/O guns without problem. if you get the Romeo1 get the 6 moa dot the 3moa gets lost on sunny days and white steel!!!

Edited January 18, 2019 by jcc7x7

[ezra650]

Yall have me thinking hard about a slide mounted optic on a dovetail mount. I may give it a whirl. I was looking at doing the storm lake barrel and a direct thread comp. There is one by EGW that is direct thread, but has a relief cut for the bushing so the slide and compensator are mated closer together giving a more clean look, only issue is it isn't 1/2x28 threads. If I can find the right comp I may can do this and avoid any gunsmith costs. Thanks for the recommendations guys.

[jpl]

You might think about using the barrel that you have.  Here's a couple of pics of a R.O. that I shortend the slide 1/2 inch, threaded the factory barrel .575 x 40, used an EGW conversion cone and a comp I made.  The comp is similiar to Cheely's 2 port comp.

 

This thing is super accurate, quick and blast to shoot!

[cheers623]

Wow John! That’s a beaut!

[jpl]

Thanks Chris, it's Sues.  She wanted a single stack for steel and found the R.O. for $600 and I did all the rest.

 

I have done 3 others like it.  The OP could get by fairly inexpensively if he went this route.  He would only need to buy the cone and comp and have a gunsmith put it together for him.  He'd probably want a mount and a sight but he could do all of that well within his $1k budget.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by jpl

[ezra650]

18 hours ago, jpl said:

You might think about using the barrel that you have.  Here's a couple of pics of a R.O. that I shortend the slide 1/2 inch, threaded the factory barrel .575 x 40, used an EGW conversion cone and a comp I made.  The comp is similiar to Cheely's 2.

 

This thing is super accurate, quick and blast to shoot!

 

Wow that does look sharp. Digging the red too, it's my favorite color lol. I suppose cutting the slide down wouldn't be too labor intensive/expensive. One friend did mention that drilling the frame would lower the value on my 1911. Also the dust cover is quite thin only allowing 2 threads for the mount screws. I'd just be letting the smith do the D/T for that as well.

 

If I did slide lightening like that I'd just have to live with never shooting in single stack with it. In the current configuration is it a good bit lighter than a plastic grip 2011 with a lightened slide? What kind of ammo do you run through it PF wise and bullet weight?

 

I was thinking about just saving a little and picking up an older STI in 9 major. I'd have the slide lightened to 11 oz or so and shoot steel and uspsa with it. Just switch ammo and recoil spring.

 

Are the springfield's already cut for a reverse plug or that has to be done too?

Edited January 22, 2019 by ezra650

[jpl]

To answer your questions and a comment:

 

If you want to be able to shoot the same pistol in Single Stack and use it as an Open gun for steel, I would leave it as is for uspsa and get another barrel and cone comp to use as an Open steel gun.  I would get a mount to fit the rear dovetail and run the red dot of your choice.  I would have a new barrel and comp fit by someone that knows what they are doing so the front of the slide doesn't get messed up and won't work right with the bushing barrel.

 

I wouldn't shorten it or lighten it until you wanted to dedicate it as steel gun.

 

Weight isn't significantly different than a STI.  Lowers are about the same and a lightened slide is lighter!  My load is 5.3 of Silhouette with a 124 MG cmj, 1.170 OAL.  That is a 119 power factor.

 

Springfield's are not cut for a reverse plug.  A competent smith with the right tooling should be able to do it, no problem.

 

Good luck with your project!

 

 

 

 

[ezra650]

14 hours ago, jpl said:

To answer your questions and a comment:

 

If you want to be able to shoot the same pistol in Single Stack and use it as an Open gun for steel, I would leave it as is for uspsa and get another barrel and cone comp to use as an Open steel gun.  I would get a mount to fit the rear dovetail and run the red dot of your choice.  I would have a new barrel and comp fit by someone that knows what they are doing so the front of the slide doesn't get messed up and won't work right with the bushing barrel.

 

I wouldn't shorten it or lighten it until you wanted to dedicate it as steel gun.

 

Weight isn't significantly different than a STI.  Lowers are about the same and a lightened slide is lighter!  My load is 5.3 of Silhouette with a 124 MG cmj, 1.170 OAL.  That is a 119 power factor.

 

Springfield's are not cut for a reverse plug.  A competent smith with the right tooling should be able to do it, no problem.

 

Good luck with your project!

 

 

 

 

In all honesty I doubt I'll pursue single stack USPSA seriously. I've got an edge for limited that was my bread and butter before I had to take a break from shooting, so I need to either pick it back up or sell it for open. Plus USPSA is only worth it to me if I'm competitive and I won't be if I division hop. 

 

 It's more about if I want to chop up the SS gun and should I if I am planning to get an open gun anyway. Putting 500- $1k into this gun could be one step closer to an open gun and mags instead OR a more affordable way to scratch my open itch. But I've really go to ask myself if I am ready for open in uspsa and the cost/ maintenance that comes with it. I think I'll give it a couple months after I've shot some matches and know what I really want to do/shoot since I'm just getting back in the saddle. This will give me time to put back some cash as well. 

 

Let me ask you about this though. I can get a storm lake "drop in" 1911 bushing barrel and do a special order to get metric .575 x 40 threads and get this EGW comp that is direct thread but recessed to fit over the barrel bushing. It would save me from having a smith fit anything. I'd be in $370 for the barrel/comp and then another $250 for the dovetail mount and an optic ( I was looking at Burris FF3 in 8moa)  Opinions on this setup? 

 

Comp link

http://www.egwguns.com/1911-parts/cnc-3-port-comp-bushing/

 

Thank you! Thanks for sharing pics and info of that fine blaster. It game me a lot of ideas to think on. I may be contacting you in the future if I have some questions if thats all right.  

[Posvar]

On 1/21/2019 at 9:08 PM, jpl said:

You might think about using the barrel that you have.  Here's a couple of pics of a R.O. that I shortend the slide 1/2 inch, threaded the factory barrel .575 x 40, used an EGW conversion cone and a comp I made.  The comp is similiar to Cheely's 2 port comp.

 

This thing is super accurate, quick and blast to shoot!

That’s a beauty! 

[jpl]

9 hours ago, ezra650 said:

Let me ask you about this though. I can get a storm lake "drop in" 1911 bushing barrel and do a special order to get metric .575 x 40 threads and get this EGW comp that is direct thread but recessed to fit over the barrel bushing. It would save me from having a smith fit anything. I'd be in $370 for the barrel/comp and then another $250 for the dovetail mount and an optic ( I was looking at Burris FF3 in 8moa)  Opinions on this setup?  

 

Well, first of all "drop in parts" don't.  And if they do, accuracy may or may not be acceptable to you.  You will need another bushing for the new setup that will need to be fit.  And the comp should be align reamed to the barrel. 

That comp has enough material on it to get the 1 deg. angle that you will need for proper lock up and clearance with the front of the slide.

 

All in all, that would not be the ideal set up, in my opinion, but should work for you.

 

[jpl]

Thanks, Posvar!

[ezra650]

9 hours ago, jpl said:

 

Hmm forgot about align reaming. So the comp would still need to be fitted by a smith and cost would be a wash probably as if I just had a cone comp fitted anyway. And very true about drop in parts, that's why I put it in quotes hehehe. Sometimes people get lucky, but I'd be ok doing some minor fitting on the storm lake barrel if need be. But I would not be able to do the 1 deg angle on the comp seeing all I have is a drill press and zero experience with that.

 

I've found a couple local guys that I may can get an older STI from for a deal so if that pans out I'll leave the SS as be for now.

 

Thanks for helping an open newbie out. Learning a lot already!

[Posvar]

Good luck! I find the research and “building” is almost as fun as shooting our projects. 

[ezra650]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:14 PM, zzt said:

 

For sights, I would definitely not frame mount them.  I'd use a dovetail adapter and mount the sight right on the slide.  Anyone who says this is not a good idea, has not done it.  I have red dot sights slide mounted on all my pistols, except the Open major ones.  My oldest 1911 45 has worn a slide mounted dot for the last 44,000 rounds with no issues whatsoever.

 

Shoot it like that for a while and decide if it is worth it to spend for slide lightening, etc.  Remember, for steel challenge there is no double tap.  So if the dot takes another .1 seconds to come back, so what.  You cannot possibly transition fast enough for that to matter a bit.

UPDATE:

 

I shot a CO gun this past weekend after a match. Wow, way more fun than I anticipated! It was on a Shadow 2 and the dot was very easy to track. I'm looking at getting a vortex venom or the FF3 on a dovetail mount for the 1911. I think I'll shoot it like that for a bit. I wonder if adding a comp would really make me much faster, maybe after a season of shooting I will convert completely to an open gun with slide lightening etc. Might have to ditch SS to pick up a CO gun later for USPSA anyway, I've sold a few guns recently so a good excuse to get another  

 

I'm staying away from an open 2011 for now. I'm not in a place budget wise to justify having one and being able to shoot it regularly. 

[Dane460]

I got a 9mm rock island and put a dot on it and a bushing comp, extended mag release and was wining local matches with it for awhile till I bough a steelmaster. I didn’t feel bad drilling into a rock island and the guns prob got 8k if not more rounds thru it and still runs great. Only had to replace a broken extractor once 

[ezra650]

23 hours ago, Dane460 said:

I got a 9mm rock island and put a dot on it and a bushing comp, extended mag release and was wining local matches with it for awhile till I bough a steelmaster. I didn’t feel bad drilling into a rock island and the guns prob got 8k if not more rounds thru it and still runs great. Only had to replace a broken extractor once 

 

Using a RIA as a base gun is not a bad idea, but a few more parts need to be swapped for my personal preference, mainly thumb safeties (way too thin) and grip safety. Also the triggers suck pretty bad. On my Springfield I got a 2.75# trigger with some polishing and sear spring adjustment. I shot an ultra match 40 once and I couldn't stand the edges on the TS,GS, and the frame. I'd take a dremel to one in a heartbeat  . So if I was ok with replacing EVERYTHING/had spare parts already I may use a RIA. However, for a few dollars more you can get a springfield RO and start a little ahead... IMO

 

 I would skip the bushing comp though, they aren't much cheaper than a cone comp and they don't seem to be as effective from what I've seen. If I was having the slide cut up anyway I might as well have the smith cut the slide back, thread the barrel and fit the cone comp.

 

I'm quite curious to see how I stack up with a slide mounted optic and no comp vs the open guys with a comp and frame mounted. If I'm good enough to notice the difference that is lol...