Torn.. HK P30 vs 9mm 1911 for CCW

[Grayman1770]

I'm starting from scratch without a handgun currently. I want to standardize on one make/caliber/operation.

 

Have been shooting for years and I LOVE 1911s. Best trigger equals best accuracy for me, and I'm not sure if anything (besides reliability) is as important as accuracy, time to first shot (pointability), recoil control/follow up speed and accuracy. 

 

I've carried full size government models and while I can shoot them very well, the weight became a burden. The bigger problem than weight was the slide length as I carry appendix due to shoulder problems. It's the ideal carry position for me and that won't change. While concealment was ideal due to thinness, with the 5" slide, sitting or leaning over was a real problem. 

 

I've been doing a lot of research and mulling over my options and I've narrowed it down to the following, in 9mm for being fastest and easiest to shoot.

 

P30S v3 (carrying cocked and locked):

Pros:

- more reliable, even if just slightly

- higher capacity (not a huge deal to me but it's there)

- lighter due to polymer frame

Cons:

- terribly long and non-tactile trigger reset (willing to modify).. Possibly the dealbreaker to me.  

- more recoil and slower/less accurate follow up shots due to weight and horrendous trigger

 

1911 (Colt LW or Combat Commander or SA RO Compact)

Pros:

- best trigger possible in a pistol

- faster and more accurate follow up shots

- likely faster and more accurate first shot

- very familiar to me

- thinner and easier to conceal 

Cons:

- less reliable (slightly)

- heavier to carry (but better to shoot)

- more expensive (less of a concern)

 

Perhaps the right answer is to get both over time, but if I were to get one first as a primary/only pistol.. I'd like to hear which route I should go.

 

Please no fanboyism or unintelligent/snarky responses. I had a Glock 19 and although the trigger was quite good with some work, I had more FTE than my past 1911s and I didn't shoot it great. Ok but not great.. The wonky grip angle and hideous looks also ruined it for me. Though I'm open-minded enough to consider it again if recommended from respectable shooters. It's just the distant third option. 

 

 I'm posting this in the forums I respect most so as to avoid dumb responses and instead hear from those who really know. 

 

I'm at a stalemate in my comparisons now. Thanks in advance for constructive thoughts. 

[davsco]

i had a 3" 1911 9mm and despite using several different brands of quality mags, had feeding issues.  don't want that in any gun but certainly not in a sd/hd gun.

 

the majority of my game guns are sti 2011s, but for hd and sd i use glock 31 and 32.  all the glocks i have have been 100% all day every day.  so out of your 2 choices i'd pick the hk over a 9mm 1911.  but glock would be (and is) my choice if you take all three into consideration.  ugly, not the best ergos, but they just work, plus a ton of aftermarket and accessories available for them.

[Grayman1770]

7 hours ago, davsco said:

i had a 3" 1911 9mm and despite using several different brands of quality mags, had feeding issues.  don't want that in any gun but certainly not in a sd/hd gun.

 

the majority of my game guns are sti 2011s, but for hd and sd i use glock 31 and 32.  all the glocks i have have been 100% all day every day.  so out of your 2 choices i'd pick the hk over a 9mm 1911.  but glock would be (and is) my choice if you take all three into consideration.  ugly, not the best ergos, but they just work, plus a ton of aftermarket and accessories available for them.

Thanks. I wouldn't go shorter than 4" in a 1911 as it's widely accepted that reliability suffers. Above that mark seems to be great.

 

I also need to look into the vp9. The g19 I had did not 'just work' at all. Even when it wasn't stovepiping, it's the gun I've shot the worst in my life. It could be fixed with training, but the reliability of the 2nd gens or other higher quality guns just doesn't seem to be there any more. Everybody makes lemons, and I'd still consider one, but I don't think it's in my top three or maybe even top 5

[sandrooney]

There are out of the box 9mm 1911's that are 100% reliable. I had a S&W Pro Series shot lots of rounds through it and never had a malfunction, same with an STI 1911 9mm, never a malfunction. Every Colt I have ever owned had all kinds of malfunctions, but with work you can make them 100%. Get good mags to start with, like Dawson or McCormick.

[Grayman1770]

17 hours ago, sandrooney said:

There are out of the box 9mm 1911's that are 100% reliable. I had a S&W Pro Series shot lots of rounds through it and never had a malfunction, same with an STI 1911 9mm, never a malfunction. Every Colt I have ever owned had all kinds of malfunctions, but with work you can make them 100%. Get good mags to start with, like Dawson or McCormick.

Were any of these new production Colts? I've read that theyve done well in the past year or two.

[sandrooney]

No they were the 70 series colts. I have no experience with the newer colts.

[p7fl]

I picked up a Colt 9mm 1911 Comp last year.

Put some oil on and ran 200 rounds without issue.  Can't say it is much of a test but the gun seems really solid.

Just decided to go all in with Glocks after a decade of 1911s because there was no SS shooters at my local matches.

I have a STI 9mm single stack that was a short run about 10 years ago. It is at 17k and was my Steel and high volumn class gun.

Guys like Kyle Lamb would pick it up during a class and not give it back for an afternoon.

9mm and 1911 is just fun. Buy the Colt, you won't loose money if you ever sell it.

[Nevadazielmeister]

I carry a HKP30 and my wife and I shot this for a couple of years in USPSA competitions. First production, then onto Limited. Eventually, my wife went to the P30LS and shot that for 2 more years before we went to Limcat Razorcats. The H&K platform was really great for her development and mine, frankly. The P30L was only an inch longer but provided much better sight radius for easier target acquisition. 

 

Reliability on the P30 was second to none. We rarely had any issues. I am not surprised hearing about issues with the 1911 platforms having problems with the 9mm array. It seems the frame size and angle of the handle lend themselves to a 45 array of ammunition. 

 

My wife currently carries the P30SK and this works for her given her hand size. The P30SK for me is just too small grip wise. 

 

My recommendation for the OP is to forego the 1911 platform of firearms and concentrate on the H&K P30S. If trigger is of concern, just have your pistol worked on by Grey Guns, they'll get that trigger smoothed out and working REALLY well. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 5:41 PM, Grayman1770 said:

 I LOVE 1911s. 

 

 full size government models the weight and slide length became a burden

but I won't go shorter than 4".

 

P30S v3 

- lighter due to polymer frame

 

- terribly long and non-tactile trigger reset.   Possibly the dealbreaker.  

- more recoil due to weight 

 

1911 (Colt LW or Combat Commander or SA RO Compact)

 

- best trigger possible in a pistol

 

- heavier to carry (but better to shoot)

 

 

That's quite a dilemma.     

 

Heavier because it's better to shoot, or lighter because it's better to carry ?

 

Great trigger or "long, non-tactile trigger" ?

 

No shorter than 4" but 5" is too long.

 

Since you're talking about CCW, most people take a compromise and go with a shorter barrel,

lighter weight gun and a trigger that isn't real light either.

 

BUT, it's entirely personal.

 

Sounds from what you've written that you would be happier with the lightweight 1911.

 

But, that's a personal choice.

 

Clint Smith says carrying a gun should be comforting, not comfortable - so carry the biggest,

heaviest gun you can tolerate.

 

To me, it depends a great deal on my perception of the threat level    …..    If I live or work in

a neighborhood where I suspect there is a high possibility that I might one day need a gun,

I'm going to get more uncomfortable and more comforted by a larger heavier gun with a 

great trigger.

 

I live in a neighborhood where my perception is that the threat level I face daily is very light.

Very little probability that I'll ever need a gun to solve any social problem.   So, for years I

carried a Kel-Tec 9mm P-11 in my pocket.   Never actually needed it, but it comforted me

that it was there a number of times.

 

Based on the latest trends in anti-social behavior, I feel a little less comfortable with my

Kel-Tec (a 10 yard gun in my hands) and have upgraded to a S&W M&P Compact 9mm

with a laser sight (which makes this a 30 yard gun, in my hands).  With a spare 17-round

mag which gives me a total of 30 rounds on my person.

 

If I felt that I needed more protection, I'd carry the M&P in my pocket and carry the Kel-Tec

in my other pocket, and have access to my AR15.

 

So, part of your decision involves deciding how likely it is you are going to just CARRY this

gun 8-12 hours/day, vs how likely is it that you will actually have to use it to defend yourself.

 

If it's really likely that you will actually use it one day, I'd go heavier with a better trigger.

 

If you are much more likely to just CARRY it day in and day out, and probably NEVER use it,

I'd go with a lighter, handier gun despite a trigger pull that isn't quite so great.

 

And, practice a LOT with it.   Matter of fact, I'd buy two of them - practice a LOT with one of

them, and carry the other.

 

Age old question - comfort vs comfortable.      

[Gary1911A1]

I have a Commander type 9MM on my hip in an IWB Holster as I type this in a coffee shop in town. I get why other people carry the Glock or some other form of a polymer pisto.l I too shoot a 1911 better than any other pistol so as long as my Commander is reliable with my chosen  pistol  I'm good with it.

[Grayman1770]

Thanks for the replies. 

Gray Guns just released a trigger parts package for the P30 for under $100.. 

 I do stay out of bad areas and out of trouble. As Mr. Miyagi said, "best defense is no be there." We don't get to decide if trouble comes to us, or in what form, but being aware and considering our environment is certainly paramount. I don't have any delusions about being a tactical ninja, or being a pistol warfighter in the suburbs. I wonder if I really need a thick double stack that's harder to conceal. Then again, I'm not sure how much concealability? even matters.

 I'm reading about P30 issues such as broken trigger return springs and out of spec grip panels causing hangups. I also had a Glock that had more failures to eject than all of my previous guns combined, though I understand all manufacturers make lemons. The vp9 seems to have more issues than the P30. Just like a 1911 can need extractor and recoil spring replacement, even the best examples of HKs and glocks need spring replacements and similar maintenence just the same. 

 

The dilemma is worse now. No idea which route to go, and many hours of research simply highlights how different the options are, and that there are pros and cons to anything. 

 

In every other forum I posted this on, the discussion turned into a circus. I really am thankful for the straightforward and unemotional help in getting me towards a solution.

I've been without a handgun for a few months and while I'm still alive, I'd like to have one with an identical backup with a pile of mags, spare parts and of course ammo. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Grayman1770

[Hi-Power Jack]

2 hours ago, Grayman1770 said:

 

I've been without a handgun for a few months and while I'm still alive, I'd like to have one with an identical backup with a pile of mags, spare parts and of course ammo. 

 

Getting esoteric about trigger pulls and accuracy is a good consideration,

 

but a Ruger sub-compact 9mm for $230 in your pocket is better than nothing,

 

at least until you decide if you want a 1911 or a P30.      

[Grayman1770]

26 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Getting esoteric about trigger pulls and accuracy is a good consideration,

 

but a Ruger sub-compact 9mm for $230 in your pocket is better than nothing,

 

at least until you decide if you want a 1911 or a P30.      

Very true. I could use something for gym or light summer carry. Options are good.

 

I wanted to adhere to two-is-one but maybe I should just

get them all in time, and then a duplicate of what I like most 

 

[Adamj]

For a time I carried a Dan Wesson ECO. It was a 9mm officer frame 1911. It carried well and had a fantastic trigger but never ran 100%. Those issues could have been user error. I should recommend using a platform that was designed specifically for 9mm.