chi Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 I was just checking the JP web site and they list a trigger group use by some top shooters and a speed hammer for the ARs. Is this really a must have for a good trigger> Ive seen so many shop selling their trigger group for the AR. I read the post here on the this forum for triggers and what is stated is you get a basic trigger job from a good smith. Any thoughts. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I don't know a thing about the JP group. But, according to Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks, the best trigger job is done with replacement parts. I think they have to do this to get the proper hardness at the contact surfaces for a long lasting trigger job. The "speed hammer" is reportedly bunk. I believe I read that David Tubb has tested them and found no significant lock time reduction to justify their use. Check Out: http://www.accuracyspeaks.com I believe that our gracious host Brian has a business relationship with AS and can get you the parts you need. E (Edited by EricW at 5:08 pm on July 9, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I have a JP trigger group with the speed hammer. It feels no faster (to me anyway) than my tweaked up colt trigger parts were before the JP parts were installed. I have shot a friends AR with one of the AS trigger systems and IMHO the AS & the JP feel about the same. The JP triggers are single stage (typically). The AS system I tried was a two stage. I thought my old trigger group with tweaked colt parts was very good until I put a finger on the JP and AS rifles. Then I realized how good a trigger can really be. The difference from an OK setup to something like these type of systems is truly unbelievable. BTW, the JP speed hammer is required if you use the JP Lo-mass operating system with light weight alloy bolt carrier. This system really works! The lo-mass bolt carrier, the adjustable gas system and the reduced throw distance for the bolt all combine to remove cycling impulse. There is next to no recoil impulse left after these systems and the muzzle brake do their job. The JP speed hammer is really only needed to prevent damage to the alloy bolt carrier during cycling. (Edited by George at 9:30 pm on July 9, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Bone Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 I'm no expert with AR trigger jobs. But I have one of the JP enterprise trigger/hammer packages in my gun. What I really liked about it is I could do it myself in about half hour. Just follow the instructions and you get a really sweet trigger job. So for those of us who don't want to send our weapons off to a gunsmith it's a nice option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 JP triggers are good stuff. So are Accuracy Speaks triggers. So are Jewell triggers. They are all FAR superior to trigger jobs on stock parts. Todd Salmon has an awesome trigger on his JP AR but the single best AR trigger on the planet has got to be the one on Jake Kempton's Accuracy Speaks AR. It's really not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chi Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 has anyone heard or used the "Jard triggers" it claims it can be set a 3 to 1 pounds! He also sell a 50 cal conversion for the AR. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Konrady Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I have a JP trigger in an OLY AR....... Smooth and Light.....a taste over 2 1/4 pounds.... I can say it works for me!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 The JP is a single stage, preferred by many action pistol shooters. Most other aftermarket trigger groups are two-stage, preferred by many high power rifle shooters. I put one in with the stock hammer and it's fabulous. I put one in another lower which had previous work done to the stock trigger group, and it's not as good as the other lower, though a huge improvement. The JP trigger is the single best modification I have made to any firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I have the JP trigger in my Colt HBar. Perfect 3 lb. let off. I used the JP springs with the factory hammer and would occasionally get a failure to fire...called JP and found out the hammer was too heavy for the light hammer spring. I also asked what the difference was between the JP hammer and the stock hammer except for the back part being missing. Answer: None. Out came the dremel cutter, whacked off the "tail" on the hammer and perfect ignition for over a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 IMO, for IPSC rifle, single stage triggers are the way to go. JP is a very good choice, and the only one I know of... What do you think Kelly? How about you Bruce? even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPiatt Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I've had JP triggers in all of my DPMS rifles since at least 1995, when I first met John. JP helped me out for two seasons and I fell in love with the system right from the start. Once installed I've never had to mess with them. Necco moly paste on the engagement spots and you're good to go. I've had trigger job's with standard trigger parts that were good but I was lucky. Come to think of it, that trigger followed a few times. From what I've been told, the hardness on factory parts vary, so even if you have a smith do a good trigger job, who knows how long it will last. It's much easier to drop in a JP and be done with it... if you're not mechanical, I believe JP will install them for you. Another thing I want to mention is John at JP and the guys at DPMS are real stand up guys. Both companies support several 3-gun matches EVERY year... Support the people who support your sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted September 4, 2002 Share Posted September 4, 2002 Necco moly paste on the engagement spots and you're good to go. Anybody know if STI/McCormick Trigger Slick is the same stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 George said the speed hammer is needed only for use with the LMOS carrier. Is there any advantage to using it with a standard carrier? I read somewhere else the JP module includes a speed hammer. True? That would explain why it's so much more expensive than just the JP fire control kit. Does the speed hammer require the use of soft primers? Will it reliably (as in never fail) ignite Winchester Small Rifle primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 (edited) Hi Erik, The JP Speed hammer didn’t seem to be a big thing except as it is required to not chew up the underside of any JP alloy bolt carrier. As far as noticeable difference goes, probably not. Where the plus would be is in the fact that the JP speed hammer is a super tight low clearance fit on the pin, whereas a stock hammer will wobble a little from extensive clearance. The speed hammer is in the drop-in module, but you have to specify for the DIY kit, same goes with the oversize pins which I consider mandatory for a no flex/slop trigger. IOW, I think the Speed Hammer contributes to a stable consistent trigger because of the tight fit on the pin, not the hammer profile. I have just under 10k through my CTR with a JP speed hammer and all my re-loads using WW SR primers and all the factory ball I have used have all gone bang 100% of the time. I just put a full JP DIY kit in my old Colt (large pin) receiver and the speed hammer works 100% under the standard bolt and carrier with factory 55 ball and my 55, 69 and 77gr re-loads. Think about this, if the hammer is lighter, it gets going a lot faster, sooner with the springs, which means it should hit the firing pin with equal PF to a heavier, but slower moving hammer with a stronger spring. Maybe we can figure out a way to measure hammer PF and get the big slow vs. small fast thing going over this ;-) BTW, Kurt touched on this later, you have to use the proper spring for each hammer type as they are meant to move that amount of mass and no other at the proper rate. -- Regards, Edited February 19, 2005 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 The speed Hammer is just a lightened hammer. It is nessecary to prevent light strikes from a full sized hammer and a light hammer spring, as someone else pointed out. The light hammer spring can't "accelerate" the heavy full hammer fast enough to insure good strikes each time. The lightened hammer will "accelerate" much faster...hmmm...speedier, and will give much better and deeper hits on the primer. So if you want to use a full sized hammer you would need the "soft" primers. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Does the speed hammer require the use of soft primers? Will it reliably (as in never fail) ignite Winchester Small Rifle primers? Erik, I think the spring weight has as much to do with it as the hammer. I'm using the JP "speed hammer" with the yellow JP spring. I've shot maybe 1.5 to 2K using Winchester blue box primers with not a single failure to ignite. (The ONLY reason that I bought the speed hammer was because I wanted the best possible trigger I could get, because my existing parts were so atrociously poor. I do not believe there is any other benefit than the finish quality of the notch that interacts with the sear.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Yeah I know the spring is important. I used the yellow springs in the JP triggers I've done with stock hammers. What George said about the hole size sounds good to me. Not that I haven't been happy with what I ended up with stock hammers and pins. Maybe with the speed hammer and JP pins I'll be overwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Maybe with the speed hammer and JP pins I'll be overwhelmed Maybe not! Most of this stuff is incremental and noticeable gains are usually only made in combination, not singly. A lot like race bike development AFAICS, seldom is one thing by itself huge, except maybe the rider in some special cases ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 has anyone heard or used the "Jard triggers" it claims it can be set a 3 to 1 pounds! He also sell a 50 cal conversion for the AR. thanks I have a Jard in my AR, set at 2#, and love it! It was a pain to set up, and I still have a little creep in it, but, I'm afraid that if I take it all out, I may have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Accuracy speaks is a single stage with no adjustments but a redone angle on sear/hammer. If you watch a stock setup, you actually cock the hammer a little when pulling the trigger. So if reliability is the utmost AS is the best single stage. I have JP's in my AR15 and AR10's, they are single stage and adjustable. What I like is the hard fit for the safety and the choice of sear engagement levels. Only problem I've seen is a primer get under the screws and made the gun no fire. Never seen them come out of adjustment if you cleaned and loctited them. Springs on the JP, when you bob the hammer I've got back to factory springs on the hammer, had a few occasions to get light strikes on surplus ammo, I keep the light trigger spring. Used oversized pins on all of them. My colt lower was the worse as the holes were not right and had to rework the angles to get good sear engagement. All my guns run around 3 lbs single stage, find it makes things much easier for three gun matchs. Haven't tried a JP or MC drop ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 JP makes a really great trigger. I installed one with the oversized JP pins ( requires reaming ) and the results are very good. Bobbed stock hammer and full power hammer spring. Lights everything 100%. The reset of my trigger is really short, no takeup ,no creep, barely any overtravel. Very fast. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I've have the new JP drop in for a couple weeks now and it is nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmfield Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm going to put a JP trigger in a Cav15 MkII. Anybody know of source for longer hammer pins - preferably anti-walk w/ E-clips? I checked with JP and they do not carry such animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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