9146gt Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Early 610's came with 5" and 6.5" barrels with fluted cylinders. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ring Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I agree that the 625 or 25 are the "gold standard" for IPSC wheelguns. A "second-best" that has not been mentioned is the 629 using .44 Special. The holes are about .430" and .44 Special should easily make 165 PF with a variety of heavy bullets and fast powders. Moonclip conversions are readily available from both the 629 and Ruger Redhawk. Has anyone ever seen .44 Specials in competition? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Hey guys,I'm trying to convince the Performance Center to provide a 625 with a Titanium cylinder for us competition types. The cylinder stop notches last a bit longer due to the surface hardness. The lighter mass also means lighter and smoother trigger pulls. I'm also recommending that they deepen the entry cuts leading into the stop notches. This should reduce/eliminate the problem of cylinder run-by. What do you think? Randy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A willing wholesaler with a 250 gun order and a slowdown at the Performance Center would make such a gun happen. And a wholesaler with that 250 gun order is the only way it'll happen. Oh and the cost of Titanium went up 100% last week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Has anyone ever seen .44 Specials in competition? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I haven't seen him shoot it, but I know that Dave Williams owns and uses a Model 29 retrofitted for moonclips in competition sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Smith has the 325PC so a Titanium cylinder may find it's way here for R&D. Ask me about it at the Steel Challenge. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Smith has the 325PC so a Titanium cylinder may find it's way here for R&D.Ask me about it at the Steel Challenge. Randy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Problem with the 325 Scandium framed Titanium cylinder snub nosed gun (two versions in 2004 a regular SC and a black PD) was that the recoil would act like a kinetic bullet puller after half the rounds in the cylinder were rapidly fired. A local gunsmith set the cylinder back, opening up the gap, several times on a couple of guys snubby's with no luck. To that end there are plenty of Titanium 45acp cylinders, problem is most of them are part of snub nose Airlights that aren't selling. Hard to buy a whole gun just for the cylinder though...not sure what the stock of parts might be in Springfield, MA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 The bullet-pulling thing would be happening because the whole dang gun is too light, right? Titanium cylinder might still have some merit in a heavier gun, for the reasons that Randy suggests.... Looks to me like the Ti 325 cylinder is quite a bit shorter than a 625 cylinder, which would necessitate a significant barrel set-back and shortening of the ejector rod and center pin. Not too big a deal, but it's hard to imagine there would be enough benefit from the lighter cylinder to justify the cost of the part and the installation work. Still interesting to think about, though..... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 The biggest problem is yes, the whole gun is too light to stand up to full power recoil. The lighter cylinder would produce a much lighter trigger pull, which is good. The cylinders are the same length, but would only be really economical if one could find a spare part. However, if someone bought both a 325SC or PD and a regular 625 and had the cylinders swapped the snubby would run reliably and give the race gun a lighter trigger...and that would be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Well, I dunno about "much lighter trigger pull".... Randy, how much practical difference would a Ti cylinder really make? I understand the theoretical difference, but isn't the vast majority of the trigger pull weight generated by the mainspring and rebound spring tension in these things? If everything's set up right, it shouldn't take too much energy to rotate a balanced cylinder on its axis, right? On the other hand, if it's a drop-in swap, might be interesting to try it, if for no reason than to have a harder cylinder and reduce the peening of the cylinder stop notches which some people seem to have.... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Speaking of which, I have noticed a number of IPSC revo shooters who slam their cylinders open and closed MUCH harder than necessary..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 My plan is to make a 6" full lug barrel with 1" of the underlug removed at the muzzle end. The Titanium cylinder with it's lighter mass also causes less torque on the frame as you are shooting at speed. The harder surface is holding up better to the abuse. The trigger pull on my steel gun is running 3.0 lbs and the Ti cylinder shows no signs of peening in the notches- even after 5k rounds and daily dry fire drills. I tend to think that for us competitor types who shoot/handle our guns more than the average joe, that the Ti cylinder will drastically increase the service live of the 625 for competition. Might be a bit more costly, but aren't all the Performance Center guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 The mass reduction in the cylinder will typically drop 6 oz. of static trigger pull weight as compared to a standard stainless steel cylinder. Remember that the hand is located close to the central axis if the cylinder, so it doesn't have a lot of mechanical advantage to get the mass of the cylinder plus that of the 230gr. rounds to start moving. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I'll let you guys know how much fitting is required to install the 325 cylinder on a 625 in 2 weeks. Should have a 625 with the Ti cylinder on the table at the Steel Challenge for people to look at and handle. Jim Rae at the Performance Center rocks! Full auto revolver here we come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedale Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Randy, You must post pics and a good analysis of this possible "breakthrough" in wheelgun technology. I pulled my 625-10 Scandium 2" out of the safe when I read this thread. The magnet stuck to the cylinder so that idea was killed. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I spoke to Jerry M. yesterday about the possibility. He told me that after the World Shoot, he will approach Smith about a new revolver, with the lighter cylinder in mind. The steel frame and barrel should keep the bullets from telescoping forwards as a result of inertia. So far this has worked well on my 627 steel gun and ICORE gun. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 If a 627 8 shot 38 super Performance Center will sell over 500 units and a 686 38 super can sell 250 units, a new 625 will probably do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAFSP Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 What would be a good entry level gun, and what would be the best caliber. I know my single action wouldn't work too well. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What would be a good entry level gun, and what would be the best caliber. I know my single action wouldn't work too well. Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tim, I will be the odd man here. There have many recomendations for the 625's and the 610's because of the ability to shoot major. I still think that a good L or even K frame is doable. Shooting Minor is not that much of a hinderance. You just have to shoot a lot more A's. A's count the same in minor and major, also so do misses, no-shoots, proceeduals and steel. The only difference is the B/C and D hits. Just stay away from them and you'll do OK. there is however a learning curve when it comes to reloading. You will need to work diligently on this aspect or just have it cut for moons. I think the prices are less on the old L and K frames and are dependable revos. I have a flame suit so I am ready for the cut back!! welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey357 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 ...let's get back to the "Thread Drift" about the Ti cylinders for a minute...two things...first I've GOT a 325 "PD"...have between 400-500 rounds thru it...not a lot, but so far, NO evidence of "Bullet Pull"...is it really an issue for some people??? If so, using WHAT KIND of ammo??? Second, if I've "Read Between the Lines" correctly, Randy has experimented with a Ti cylinder in a 627...I'm guessing that it was the "327" cylinder...if so, how much WEIGHT came out of the GUN making that swap???...Thanks in Advance....mikey357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What Bubber said......+1 Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Fay Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What bubber said....+2 Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 What Bubber said...+3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAFSP Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Thanks, for the info. Something like a redhawk or?? would be good to look at. In maybe a .44 or would a .357 mag work. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Tim: Just so you know what's going on here.....Bubber, Hopalong, Luke, and Chuck are trying to talk you into getting a slow ol' K-frame so they can try to whip up on you with their moonclip guns. Trust me, this is a bunch of extremely devious gamers. Me, I always play it straight here on the forum (just ask around), and I'll tell you this much: If you want to shoot IPSC revo, get a 625 or 25-2 or you'll wish you had later. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty45 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 what Carmoney said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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