Developing Cadence - How?

[AggieMM]

Over the weekend, I competed in two IDPA club matches (Sat & Sun). One of the things pointed out to me by some MA and EX shooters was that I needed to work on my cadence when engaging multiple targets. They pointed out that while engaging two targets, I’d go:

bang-bang-(pause while engaging other target)-bang-bang

I know and understand the goal, i.e. that it should be:

bang-bang-bang-bang

Steady, consistent, fluid. However, here’s my question. How does one work on cadence? What should I be focusing on to improve it? Any dry firing suggestions? Range practice tips?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ryan

[ErikW]

1. Forget cadence or timing

2. Let the sights determine when to shoot

3. Aggressively practice (live- and dry-fire) transitions. Search this forum on the word "transitions."

[Ben Stoeger]

One day at the range I just "willed" it to happen. I forced myself to drive the gun aggressivly towards the next target to fire the shot. I haven't looked back since. Just keep up the dry fire and you will make it happen.

[George]

Dry Fire! Shoot when the sights are there, not before, not after. The time to recover and the time to move the gun are similar.

[eric nielsen]

During your dry-fire, do some multiple-target drills & start out extremely slow. FOCUS on the the sights for the shot you are making at the moment. But while you're doing that, try to NOTICE the next target [or all the surrounding targets] with your peripheral vision.

The goal is to give your mind a pretty good idea of where to pop your focus to next, after completing the shots on the target you're on at the moment. Don't speed up the drill till you see this new information 10/10 times.

Live-fire, you'll want to see the sight lift BEFORE you snap your eyes to the next target. Pretty soon, the faster you move your eyes, the faster you'll shoot multiple targets.

Edited August 8, 2005 by eric nielsen

[vincent]

The key to developing what you are calling cadence is working on target to target transitions. When your transitions are faster your shooting will start sounding more like you are describing. It is not that you are shooting any slower on the targets (you are shooting how ever fast it takes to get a good hit). What you are doing is getting to the next target quicker.

Try setting up two targets 5 yards edge to edge. From high ready shoot two on the first one and then snap over and shoot two on the second. Work on both directions. Record your transition times and see how fast you can shoot 4 A/-0 hits.

Another one that can be interesting is this one.

NOTE: All targets are at 7 yards.

Array 1: Setup 1 target by itself.

Array 2: Setup 3 targets 1 foot apart edge to edge.

Array 3: Setup 3 targets 1 yard apart edge to edge.

1) Shoot 3 runs of 6 shots from high ready at the single target and record your splits and hits. The goal is all body A or -0 hits.

2) Shoot 3 runs on the second array trying to keep the splits the same.

3) Shoot 3 runs on the third array again trying to keep the splits the same.

By gradually moving the targets apart you ease into the transition speed and it is often easier to prove to yourself that you can do it. I have actually seen people who repeatedly shoot 3 separate targets faster than the single target with all good hits. Like I said it can be an interesting drill.

-Vincent

[Sac Law Man]

Also, try this..set up 8 targets in front of you, arrange the targets in a slight semi circle so the end targets are actually the closet to you. Start at one end and transition the gun accross the targets without ever really stopping the gun, fire two rounds at each target (controlled pairs) when the sights reach the A or Zero down zone. Make sure you see what you need to see, and try to keeep the gun moving. Keep shifting your focus to the next target as soon as you fire off the 2nd shot. Go slow but be smooth

[Clay1]

One up from the bottom of the videos speaks to this situation.

http://www.andersonshooting.com/videos.htm

Rick

[EricW]

1. Forget cadence or timing

2. Let the sights determine when to shoot

3. Aggressively practice (live- and dry-fire) transitions. Search this forum on the word "transitions."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hooaaah!

[AggieMM]

Ah, that's why I couldn't find anything using the search, I was using the wrong terminology. Thanks to all for the advice and links, very helpful, and exactly what I need. Thanks!

Ryan

[Flyin40]

I'll try to explain this based on how I figured it out. I read on the forums, dryfired, shoot with SA and Flex regulary but I still didn't quite grasp the whole thing. At the time I thought I knew exactly what it was. My shooting between targets dramatically improved with SA and Flex's help but it wasn't until lately when I took 4 targets and set close, probably at about 7 yds. I shot the array in the normal fashion and recorded the time. I then (this is where I finally had the feeling that I understood it) forced the gun to the next target. The times were alot faster. I wasn't worried about hits at all. I shot it probably 10 times to make sure I kept that feeling in my head. I wasn't trying to go full tilt, I was attempting to shoot A's but if I didn't I could of cared less. The drill was to understand target to target shots and forcing the gun to the next target. After about 10 runs I then worked on shooting A's only but with the same feeling of forcing the gun over. It worked like a charm.

Set up the targets and dont' worry about hits, just work on forcing the gun over. Never slow up your shooting, just make your gun get the the next target before you pull the trigger. Once it clicks in your head then start working on the A's. If it takes more the 50 rounds to understand it be careful because that type of shooting will transfer to matches it you do it too much.

You can try this in dryfire. Just set the targets up, somewhere theres a link for reduced size ipsc targets or just use paper plates and try it out.

Flyin40

[George]

Aggressively drive the gun to the center of the next target, it can and will happen faster than the sights will come back down from recoil, just make sure the gun is already somewhere else when the sights settle back down.

That's why people speak of it being a cadence, because when this is done right, the time between the shots is all about recovering the sights, not moving the gun. Moving the gun happens while the sights are being recovered.

--

Regards,

[Rockclimbg]

........... just work on forcing the gun over.  Never slow up your shooting, just make your gun get the the next target before you pull the trigger. 

Flyin40

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Flyin40

That's a great way of putting it in my opinion. It's not shooting without calling the shots. I'm just starting to get into this kind of shooting and I'm seeing some big improvement in my transitions although I still have a ways to go.

Rockclimbg

[David Olhasso]

From my experience, often the people with cadence or transition issues are those who double-tap.

If you make the assumption that every single shot is a called shot (a shot having a good enough sight picture to hit an A), then driving the gun back to the same target for a second shot is almost the same as driving the gun to a seperate target right next to the first. The goal is to always be driving the gun towards the next shot, whether the next shot is on the same target or a different one.

[Clay1]

In Matt Burkett's DVD 7 he talks about transitions and comments on something that I do on a regular basis. Two targets - A & B. First shot on A, sights rise then settle back on target then second shot is fired on A. Here's what I do at that point - sights rise then settle back on A then move gun to B. Matt says that I am wasting a ton of time of the second settlement on B. When the second shot breaks and you can CALL that shot MOVE the gun to target B.

I understand the pricipal, it is one thing to intellectualize it and quite another to make it happen. I'm working on it.

Rick

[Flexmoney]

Rick,

It sure sounds like you are thinking in terms of two shots on one target, then onto the next target. Like David says in the post above yours...experiment with conceptualizing/visualizing each shot individually.

[Paladin]

dave said it perfect.. " Drive the gun to the next shot".. establish a shoot-shoot approach.. all you have to do now is practice driving the gun to the next shot on the same target and driving the gun to the next shot on the next target..

same target..next shot

next target..next shot..eventually it will be target..next shot, it does not matter if same or next target.. work on it!!