.223 reloading/grouping

[cvincent]

What kind of groups should one expect out of minimal effort in loading .223?

Using 650, MK7. LC brass, but not sorted by headstamp. It gets Dillon size die with expander ball removed, trim die to ~1.750.

Loading toolhead gets M die, powder, MBF, Dillon seater, Dillon crimper. I’ve tried 6 or 7 powders, 5 bullets. Current favorite is 23gr 8208 over 77TMK. Testing the 73ELDs the best group was 21.9gr of 8208. I Got better groups out of a Faxon pencil barrel than I get out of my JP 18” barrel. I barely get anything under an inch at 100 out of the JP. It has ~8000 rounds on it. Getting a little frustrated with the JP as it’s my main 3 gun rifle.

Powders; H335, TAC, Varget, shooters world tactical rifle and match rifle, AA2460, CFE223, 8208 XBR. Tried 75gr hornady, 69TMK, 77TMK, 73ELD.

 

Any comments, insights, experience would be welcome and appreciated.

 

Faxon 16” Pencil barrel

 

JP barrel, same load as above 21.9 gr 8208, 73ELDs

 

JP 23gr 8208, 77TMK

This is also the best group that has ever came out of the gun. I’d be happy with this if it’s consistent, which makes me think it’s just the variances in my ammo manufacturing with minimal effort, through an automated progressive.

 

 

 

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[TonytheTiger]

With 8000 rounds on the barrel you might be too late to be looking for an accurate load.

[stick]

Are those groups off hand, or off a rest?

What distance?  

[M1A4ME]

What distance do you shoot?  Most people have stated, over the years, that inside 300 yds. or so a flat based bullet will give just as good, if not better, groups than a boat tailed bullet.  Might save yourself some money for more ammo/practice with the right bullet.

 

Some rifles/barrels do very well with a load that other rifles don't shoot so well.  Your barrel might shoot many loads well, or it might be one of those that you need to find "that special load" for.

 

I've bought some of those heavy match bullets but haven't gotten around to using them yet.  I load mostly 55 grain FMJBT for .223 and don't shoot past 100 yds.  In the days I did shoot past 100 yds. I got the best groups from some 45 grain varmint bullets and IMR4198 (not in an AR15 rifle).

 

These days I use more BLC2 for 55 grain FMJBT (Hornady) bullets in .223 and my AR15's than anything else.  It meters very uniformly through my RCBS Uniflow powder measure.  Same for H335, but I seldom use that powder.

 

I won't say you'll get better/more consistent groups by segregating your brass by head stamp.  But, I will say that when using my misc. brass (small amounts of various head stamps that I lump together in the same bucket and reload for plinking) I may get a very nice group followed by another group with a random outlier or two.  When I was hunting with my .223 I sorted by head stamp.  For range/plinking ammo I just dumped it all in the same bucket.

 

Accuracy improvements usually require consistency in ammo and technique.

 

Good luck.

[12glocks]

From a thousand miles away I am sitting here wondering if perhaps you need to de-copper the bore of the JP, a thought.  It is counterintuitive that the Faxon barrel will outshoot the JP.

 

Some nodes I have found with Hornady 75's and Sierra 77's are with TAC at 23.4 grains, CFE223 25.0 grains, IMR 8208 22.9-23.4 grains and those loads work in multiple rifles with hand lapped match barrels.

 

I use a 650, trim on a Dillon trimmer, expand the neck with a Dillon expander ball, no bullet feeder, Forster Ultra Micrometer Seating die, no crimp and easily make sub moa loads for 3 gun.  SD's with 8208 are in the teens, TIR is 003 or less.  I have tried substituting magnum primers and found they opened up the groups for me (I wanted them to work for various reasons).

 

I guess the usual checks are indicated, check your scope mount is not loose and the gas block is not hitting the handgaurd, de-copper bore to bare metal yada yada.  Change anything on the JP lately?   I would think a JP barrel might be going strong at 8k, one of my barrels is getting erratic and not shooting so well at that round count and I am changing it out this week.  Keep us posted what you find out.

 

ETA:  I had underwhelming accuracy with the 73 grain ELD's.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by 12glocks

[cvincent]

These are at 100yards with a front and rear bag. I swapped out scopes and scope mounts, to eliminate as a cause, groups did get better, but that could be the fact that I went from an Atibal 1-8 to a Razor 1-6...
I did try some PPU match factory ammo, it shot ~1hole groups out of my bolt action
.308, so i figured I’d give the .223 version a try, not impressive. I probably should
de copper the bore and go from there..



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[practical_man]

On 5/26/2018 at 9:18 PM, TonytheTiger said:

With 8000 rounds on the barrel you might be too late to be looking for an accurate load.

^^^This.

 

I replaced the barrel on my Service Rifle at less than half that number. 

 

A good quality barrel from White Oak, Shillen, or the like would be an good investment for an accuracy rifle at that round count.  

 

I like 1:8 twist barrels across the course. Many people who shoot well have gone to 1:6.5 twist to better shoot the very long bullets.  I think you would be well served by an1:8 quality barrel for the bullet weights you list. 

[venatic]

I am guessing 8000 rounds shooting the heavier side weight wise bullets your barrel throat is starting to get bad.