Sharyn Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Anyone who shoots competition will ask themselves this question. Is it my draw? splits? transitions? reloads? movement?... So... for the next 6 months, you work very hard on your draw. It was 1.5 seconds, now it's 1 second. You work very hard on your splits. They were 0.25 seconds, now they're 0.2 seconds... same with your transitions... These are some pretty big improvements!!! You draw and engage 5 targets... 6 months ago your time was 3.75... now your time is 2.8. You've saved almost a second! (0.95 seconds) Next scenario... you call a mike on the last shot and make it up immediately. With your best split time, that's an additional 0.2 seconds. You've just negated all the time you saved on your transitions. 3rd scenario... you call a mike on a shot on the 4th target but have moved to the 5th target... fastest split + fastest transition = 0.4 seconds. You've nearly negated the all the time you saved on your splits and transitions (-0.05 seconds). Worst case scenario... you missed and began moving to your next position... you stop and change your direction of movement (0.5 seconds)... you transition back to the target, re-acquire it and make your shot (0.5 seconds)... You've just negated all of your improvements over the last 6 months... IN ONE SHOT!!! RE-ENGAGEMENTS ARE VERY TIME CONSUMING!!! Wow... it took me this long to realize that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Way to figure it out sniper, only took me 5 years to learn that one. Come to think of it, some days i'm not so sure i have James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 I always figured 1/3 of a second for a make up shot, particularly on steel. I keep trying to just shoot to my sights but when the buzzer goes off a part of my brain goes to sleep and forgets all this stuff. It's lack of practice time, 100 rounds a week at a local match and maybe draw the gun 4-5 times... that's all I have. If you want to take a different tack to reduce time, then spend some time on where you put your feet. If you video a top shooter during a walk-through and compare with the actual shooting then you will notice that they plant there feet in exactly the same place as the walkthrough. This enables them to know EXACTLY where the target is through the port before they even see it. My estimation is that this saves them at least 1/2 a second at a port or leaning around a wall. If you have a stage with 3-4 ports, it adds up to a couple of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 RE-ENGAGEMENTS ARE VERY TIME CONSUMING!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True.... but, not re-engaging and taking a miss is even more costly! It took me a little while to learn how to actually call shots - I never really made anything up before that... Another bad scenario - you're shooting Prod/L-10/L-6 (uh, revolver), and you have to re-engage and *then* perform an extra reload so you've got ammo to finish the stage.... Or you do like I did a couple of months back, and end up at the last target of the stage with exactly one round left in the gun - and you take a miss anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Almost the only time I would even consider re-engaging a target is if I had a mike. It is never worth making up C's and almost never worth making up D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Sniper, Very good observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 Thanks guys! This "realization" came from reviewing/analyzing my videos from Nationals. I can see a good 2 seconds I lost just from re-engagements on 3 stages. To me, this isn't a "time reducing" strategy... like set-up/movement... it's about figuring out where the time really went. I don't know how many times I've looked at a video and wondered where the time went... then said, "Well, my draw sucks... my splits are slower... I hesitated on that shot... I shouldn't have gotten so far into that port... etc." Until yesterday, I just viewed re-engagements as fixing a mistake... which it is... but I hadn't realized how costly a mistake it was. There's no way to fix it once it's done... the best recourse is prevention. I figured out set-up/movement (where to put my feet) at East Texas Section Championships last November. I was having a tough time figuring out just where to end up, from a small sprint, so I could see both the targets on the left and the targets on the right. There was certainly a "sweet spot" but I couldn't find it by just running there. So... I picked up a bright, red shotgun shell and placed it just where I needed to be so I knew where to run to... After the walk-through, Ken Hicks (the Area 4 director) took me by the arm and said, "I just saw you do something very smart... what many of the top shooters do... but you need to be more discrete about it..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Smoke & Hope yesterday: 2.17, 2.17, 2.15, 2.52 Guess what happened on the 2.52? Miss and make-up, the difference between 4th and 9th on the stage, and one place in the overalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 The work on the draw, transitions, and movement was still worth the effort, if you had not done that you would have been slower overall, and "may" still have had the make-ups/errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 After the walk-through, Ken Hicks (the Area 4 director) took me by the arm and said, "I just saw you do something very smart... what many of the top shooters do... but you need to be more discrete about it..." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...cause it's technically a violation of 4.5.1, and could earn you a procedural I essentially do the same thing (or try to), but I use natural "landmarks" on the course - spots on the ground, edges of props, etc. I'm not sure I like hearing about an AD encouraging a competitor to break a rule.... or that he feels like many top shooters do it ... and he hasn't said anything about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Way to figure it out sniper, only took me 5 years to learn that one.Come to think of it, some days i'm not so sure i have James <{POST_SNAPBACK}> only 5 years Still working on it here to, trusting isn't always easy. The worst for me is seeing a bad shoot, looking at target, and then shooting more targets and not even looking at them. That is an AWEFUL feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 Dave, put down your rule book for a second... "... but you need to be more discrete about it..." I essentially do the same thing (or try to), but I use natural "landmarks" on the course - spots on the ground, edges of props, etc. <scratching my head> Remember what section I posted this in... Yup, draw/split/transition work is still very important... Steel is an excellent example, as Erik Warren pointed out. Hmmm... I guess the people who understand what I'm saying... well... understand what I'm saying! I'm 1 year, 5 months into this game... the pseudo-epiphanies of realizing what you already know are really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Make-ups on steel have been KILLING me in matches. I'm not 2-4 seconds slower on technique to the local GM's, but I take 2-4 seconds longer to finish the stage when my shots sail past the plates non-stop into the berm. Make-up shots have sometimes been the difference in who wins Area & National titles too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Dave, put down your rule book for a second... Why?? I like it so much Since I can't shoot all the time right now, I have to do *something*.... I essentially do the same thing (or try to), but I use natural "landmarks" on the course - spots on the ground, edges of props, etc. <scratching my head> I'm dense today (as usual... for men) .... ??? I don't move anything around, I just pick out existing spots, etc... I'm 1 year, 5 months into this game... the pseudo-epiphanies of realizing what you already know are really cool. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're doing better than I did at that point - hell, better than I am right now, too I've been loving "remembering" things along the way as I'm putting things back together.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 At the Steel Challenge, you can think of it as "every extra shot puts you one more place down the results list". Practically the entire first page is separated by 0.30 seconds or less each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 I'm dense today (as usual... for men) .... ??? I don't move anything around, I just pick out existing spots, etc... Man, your title is so appropriate... Dude, I'm gonna 'splain this to you directly so NO ONE gets the wrong impression of Ken Hicks' intentions for me. M'kay? Essentially, Ken told me I was breaking the rules but he knew I was a new shooter and had no malicious intentions. He sat me down and explained what I had done wrong and why... then he explained that top shooters do the same thing by looking for "natural landmarks" instead of marking it themselves (like I had done). Then, he showed me a patch of grass on the course. Git it?... and thanks for derailing the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 Dude, I'm gonna 'splain this to you directly so NO ONE gets the wrong impression of Ken Hicks' intentions for me. M'kay? M'kay, m'kay... Essentially, Ken told me I was breaking the rules but he knew I was a new shooter and had no malicious intentions. ... Then, he showed me a patch of grass on the course.Git it?... and thanks for derailing the topic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> D'oh. Smack upside the head taken, ma'am. You may return to your topic!! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 D'oh. Smack upside the head taken, ma'am. You may return to your topic!! :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah man, oven mitt beat down by an effiminate pastry product representative...the shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 New shooter? Didn't I meet you at an Infinity match in Reno a couple years ago? No later than Area 1 last year for sure. "But I'm just a new shooter," she said as she batted her eyelashes at the RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted July 29, 2005 Author Share Posted July 29, 2005 New shooter? Didn't I meet you at an Infinity match in Reno a couple years ago? No later than Area 1 last year for sure. "But I'm just a new shooter," she said as she batted her eyelashes at the RO. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I met you at Area 1 last year... you were generous enough to lend me some sunblock... of which I'll be forever indebted to you. Thanks! That was my second major match... Georgia State was my first and East Texas was my third. carinab, ROFLMAO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Did we answer the original question? Where does the time go? 1) Make up shots 2) ??? I know shooters who simply shoot slowly to avoid having to make those costly make up shots. They're not gaining a thing, just losing time somewhere else. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 As they say, "You can't miss fast enough to win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 D'oh. Smack upside the head taken, ma'am. You may return to your topic!! :lol: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah man, oven mitt beat down by an effiminate pastry product representative...the shame... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... a little poke in the stomach should fix it. Stand back after you do it though. You'll want to watch out for that glock when the hands come down for the uncontrollable belly rub and little giggle. Then again there's nothing like unbaked pastry, hysterical laugher, an oven mit, and an accidental discharge to really get the party started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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