Targets set too close to foul lines

[talentedprofessional]

Recently competed at a local USPSA match. After doing our walk through I addressed personal concern with a follow shooter about how close some of the targets were placed to the front foul line. In one instance the shooter loads and makes ready facing down range, reholster, rotate and face uprange for the starting position,  then must turn and engage targets to his left and right. The issue of turning the correct way as to NOT laser anyone uprange wasn't the problem, but how close those targets were set to the foul line. I personal feel this should NOT be ""part of the challenge". Several shooters in the past have been DQ;ed based on the CRO judgement call of breaking the 180 rule. Why if this is the norm are we tempting fate? The RO's have plenty of other opportunities do DQ a shooter during the course of the day, but busting a shooter right out of the shooters box for breaking a 180 rule is total BS in my opinion. Isn't there set rules for target location. Perhaps a better way to define or layout a setup of targets so they are more angled down range?

[gng4life]

The only rules that relate to that is about the physical construction, shooters being "forced to act in any manner which might cause unsafe action", and "safe angles of fire". As long as it at or beyond the 90 degree median intercept angle, it should be a safe angle. As long as the possible shots will not leave the berms, strike something that could be dangerous, or something along those lines, it should satisfy these rules also. It is the shooter's responsibility to keep their muzzle downrange. I see so many shooters trying to push beyond their capabilities so that is where most of the problems exist. Every shooter must understand their limitations and think safety before hit factor. Don't get me wrong, I do understand about courses that may seem a little unfair but every shooter must come up with a good plan that will account for those issues. And as always, if you see a safety issue, make it known right away to an official.

[Gary Stevens]

You cannot challenge the difficulty of a stage, but you can officially challenge the safety of the stage before you shoot it.

[talentedprofessional]

Thanks for your input guys. It's not in my nature to complain about such things. I do enjoy the sport, been competing off and on since the early 80's, back when it was just IPSC. But back then we didn't push the limits on impracticality when it came to target placement. USPSA is a great organization don't get me wrong, they (IMO) should increase the setback, further down range when it come to setting targets. Whether it's and experienced shooter or a newbie on the line, its a bit unnerving seeing a weapon pointed at 90 degrees from the foul line.

 

[tanks]

I have shot at a match that several times have made it so targets can be seen from a position that would break the 180 if one is going right to left instead of left to right from the start position as those targets would be seen from two different positions. Too lazy to put a wall between the corner and the first port on the left side.

 

Of course, they'd be DQing lefties so no one cares  

[IHAVEGAS]

5 hours ago, talentedprofessional said:

based on the CRO judgement call of breaking the 180 rule.

 

Either you are completely sure (call it) or you are not sure (don't call it), I get your point, just saying.

My personal preference is to avoid setting targets right on the 180 as well.

 

 

45 minutes ago, tanks said:

Too lazy to put a wall between the corner and the first port on the left side.

 

Sounds like they could use more volunteers to help with set up?

Edited April 22, 2018 by IHAVEGAS

[Poppa Bear]

If they were forward of the Front foul line then it should not be an issue unless the shooter was performing a bad reload where they broke the 180 as they were reloading.  If your reference was the the rear fault line with the shooter having to engage the targets before they could advance into the shooting area then that is something that should be addressed before the stage starts.  

 

I had one stage where you had to engage the first steel within the first 5 feet of the shooting area.  Everyone did fine except for one shooter (New) who advanced about 15 feet down and then started to engage the steel array from down range to up range.  I had no choice but to wait until he broke the 180, because he could have moved back up range at any time prior to breaking the 180.

[tanks]

28 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

...Sounds like they could use more volunteers to help with set up?

 

No volunteers at all. It is a business that charges $40 per shooter per match.

[talentedprofessional]

We had offered to help with the setup 2 days prior, even though our travel time was 1 hour 40 minutes away. The match officer thanked us kindly for the offer but did say he had plenty of help. If regards to the nailed down 2x4 foul lines they use, I guess practicing on a balance beam to give me better one footed shooting next time will be a start.

 

[teros135]

If you feel the stage isn't "safe",  you should feel free to not shoot it.  And by all means give the balance beam a try.  It'll probably help with those impossible leaning shots around walls and barricades (heaven knows we could all use some of that!  ? ).

[Nathanb]

6 hours ago, tanks said:

I have shot at a match that several times have made it so targets can be seen from a position that would break the 180 if one is going right to left instead of left to right from the start position as those targets would be seen from two different positions. Too lazy to put a wall between the corner and the first port on the left side.

 

Of course, they'd be DQing lefties so no one cares  

Or someone didn’t think to shoot it that way. You have no idea how many times I’ve set up a stage and figure out all the safe ways to shoot it only to see someone do something completely out of the realm of my thought process. It’s why multiple sets of eyes are so important. 

 

 

[gng4life]

On 4/23/2018 at 2:23 AM, Nathanb said:

Or someone didn’t think to shoot it that way. You have no idea how many times I’ve set up a stage and figure out all the safe ways to shoot it only to see someone do something completely out of the realm of my thought process. It’s why multiple sets of eyes are so important. 

 

 

+1

[IHAVEGAS]

On 4/22/2018 at 6:23 PM, Nathanb said:

Or someone didn’t think to shoot it that way. You have no idea how many times I’ve set up a stage and figure out all the safe ways to shoot it only to see someone do something completely out of the realm of my thought process. It’s why multiple sets of eyes are so important. 

 

 

 

 

We do love to find shortcuts  , I squad often with a GM revolver guy and those weirdos can teach you a lot about different ways to shoot a stage. 

[talentedprofessional]

From what I've experienced, it does not matter how perfect you do your walk thru, the plan turns to crap after the timer goes off. One feed jam, one fumbled reload, and "oh damn where was i?" Sets in.

[waktasz]

You get over that with experience. Hopefully.