Getting under 100 in Prod

[rowdyb]

So I've been shooting all 8 sc stages in one go, every day for the past 5 days. I'm always right around 109 to 115 total.

 

With only a draw and transitions to shave time, barring outer limits, it seems like taking 10 seconds off is going to be a huge ask.....

 

Anyone here shoot Prod and gotten it dialed? I've only live fired the stages, no dry fire. And oh btw steel nats is next week.

[jkrispies]

That’s about 1/3 second per string in a week....   ouch.  

 

I’m not a production shooter (I’m training on irons now and starting my Single Stack Regime soon) but....   How’s your reaction time to the beep?  Most folks can gain a tenth or two (or three) by sharpening their reaction tiime by nailing the beep.  Tighten up your draw speed while practicing that and maaaaaaayyyyyyybbbbbbbeeeeeee......

Edited March 23, 2018 by jkrispies

[rowdyb]

I agree the biggest single time chunk for me to lessen is my draw.

[tyman1876]

10 seconds is a lot of time to shave but if you break it down a little bit I think it’s doable.

Look at it this way. 10 seconds split between 8 stages is 1.25 seconds per stage. 1.25 seconds between 4 strings (that count) is about .31 seconds per string. For me a string with a clean draw, fast transitions and no misses can easily be .31 seconds faster than a normal string. The kicker is doing that for an entire match

[ChuckS]

These are the guys who did it at last year's nats:

Just do what they do...

 

[jkrispies]

Here’s how I’ll practice my reaction time out of the holster.... theoretically at this point...   A typical beep is about .35 seconds.  I expect to have a good grip on the gun before the beep is complete, so to practice with a “hearable par” I need to do more than just a grab, but I hate to do a full draw if all I’m practicing is reaction time.  Play with a par to see where you’re at drawing the gun out of the holster but only getting a proper support hand grip before pushing it out.  If there’s a discernible gap between the two beeps, make that your par and practice the crap out of it.  

 

With a perfect grab, that is. ?

Edited March 23, 2018 by jkrispies

[rowdyb]

I am trying to do what "they" do, that's for sure. But that great of time loss in a week is probably not practical. So I'll mix my draw with continued reps of perfection. Thank you.

Edited March 23, 2018 by rowdyb

[Trent1k1]

Need to break the trigger on a target (live fire or dry fire), not just have you hand on the gun.

 

Movement should begin at the start of the beep.  I see people lose .25 seconds waiting for the sound of the beep to end before starting their draw.

 

If you don't have a GOOD sight picture, and trigger pull, the iteration didn't count.

[stick]

@rowdyb  what do you use for dry fire in steel challenge?

I found the steel shoot banners very helpful. 

[rowdyb]

I'd like to say I use the cool dry fire videos of SC on youtube. But I jut use a bunch of white round cardboard pieces held by magnets to the garage door.

[jkrispies]

9 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I'd like to say I use the cool dry fire videos of SC on youtube. But I jut use a bunch of white round cardboard pieces held by magnets to the garage door.

I do a mixture of both.  I think it’s important to train using “just plates” going in both directions, as well as stage specific setups such as the aforementioned banners tgat I always shoot the same as a real stage run.  I was going to mention those hefore but since you’re on a time crunch I didn’t bother.  For my plate setups, I always use 10” pkates.  White paper plates can work in a pinch.  

[stick]

I know it's short notice, but their is nothing like the actual stages.  Good luck at Nationals!

 

[rowdyb]

Those banners are cool!! I might have to acquire those.....

 

Yeah, I didn't or haven't put in enough work to get below 100. 120 is probably more likely under these conditions as 107 is the best I've ever done in practice.

[jkrispies]

One of the big benefits to the banners is that they can be set up in a nice cozy indoor room for high end dry fire during the harder winter months. I prefer to dryfire in daylight but oftentimes either the daylight hours or the temperature (or both) don’t cooperate, and on really cold sub-freezing days I can’t even take it in my garage.  These are life savers then.  

[stick]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

Those banners are cool!! I might have to acquire those.....

 

Yeah, I didn't or haven't put in enough work to get below 100. 120 is probably more likely under these conditions as 107 is the best I've ever done in practice.

The banners are awesome.  I went in half with a friend of mine on all eight.  We each practice with four for two weeks, then we switch.  I went from "B" to Master in literally two months (5 matches).  I posted an 8.01 run on roundabout my last match. They definitely work!

[rowdyb]

Shot a 221. Pendulum and outer limits killed me. My hope for top 10 in Prod is fading rapidly

[bigtimelarry]

Your Draws have got to be around the 1.2 sec range.  If your draws are down to that and your hitting your first shot clean, then

it's gotta be somewhere else you need to work at.   BTW, I have 2 of those banners, Pendulum & Accelerator. They work great.

Unfortunately i dont have the room for them so they are in storage and i just dryfire to the wall.

Edited March 30, 2018 by bigtimelarry

[jkrispies]

8 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Shot a 221. Pendulum and outer limits killed me. My hope for top 10 in Prod is fading rapidly

Okay, I'll tell you a secret because I like you:  if you practice the living crap of MOVEMENT ONLY on Outer Limits, you can gain some serious seconds.  Shhh... don't tell anyone.  

 

For dry fire, you can set up all 5 mock plates if you want, but you really only need the second plate you'll shoot from the first box and the first plate you'll shoot from the second box.  Set up a pair of correctly sized and spaced boxes made with PVC or something like that (this forces you to lift your feet so you don't stumble on raised edges that you didn't practice with at home but are found at the range) and then get to work with the par timer.  You'll learn that when it comes to movement speed, too slow is... well, too slow.  On the other hand, too fast is actually worse because if you skid or bobble going into the second box, you'll lose way too much time reacquiring your sights.  Hit the sweet spot, and you'll destroy the competition.  

 

In the beginning box DO NOT take a proper shooting stance, but rather angle your body for a nice and immediate movement to the next box.  The shots aren't as hard as your eyes and brain are telling you-- just deal with the improper stance and make the hits.  Start in the rear inside corner of the first box and move somewhat diagonally to the middle/front of the second box-- it's a longer walk but more sure footed (and therefore faster) than a straight side-to-side "crabwalk".  As for how you step, that depends a bit on your height, I believe.  I'm 5'10" so I start moving with my outside foot and can be in the second box with a pair of really big strides, firing before my second foot is fully planted.  It seems like shorter folks prefer to start with the other foot.  Don't lower the gun while you're moving-- it's always up at aiming level.

 

My best overall time in competition is 12.64 seconds (12.6 is GM dammit!!!!) but I've had occasions with three consecutive under 12 seconds in practice sessions.  The shooting for Outer limits is really not all that special-- it truly is all about the movement.

Edited March 30, 2018 by jkrispies

[promtcy]

58 minutes ago, jkrispies said:

Okay, I'll tell you a secret because I like you:  if you practice the living crap of MOVEMENT ONLY on Outer Limits, you can gain some serious seconds.  Shhh... don't tell anyone.  

 

For dry fire, you can set up all 5 mock plates if you want, but you really only need the second plate you'll shoot from the first box and the first plate you'll shoot from the second box.  Set up a pair of correctly sized and spaced boxes made with PVC or something like that (this forces you to lift your feet so you don't stumble on raised edges that you didn't practice with at home but are found at the range) and then get to work with the par timer.  You'll learn that when it comes to movement speed, too slow is... well, too slow.  On the other hand, too fast is actually worse because if you skid or bobble going into the second box, you'll lose way too much time reacquiring your sights.  Hit the sweet spot, and you'll destroy the competition.  

 

In the beginning box DO NOT take a proper shooting stance, but rather angle your body for a nice and immediate movement to the next box.  The shots aren't as hard as your eyes and brain are telling you-- just deal with the improper stance and make the hits.  Start in the rear inside corner of the first box and move somewhat diagonally to the middle/front of the second box-- it's a longer walk but more sure footed (and therefore faster) than a straight side-to-side "crabwalk".  As for how you step, that depends a bit on your height, I believe.  I'm 5'10" so I start moving with my outside foot and can be in the second box with a pair of really big strides, firing before my second foot is fully planted.  It seems like shorter folks prefer to start with the other foot.  Don't lower the gun while you're moving-- it's always up at aiming level.

 

My best overall time in competition is 12.64 seconds (12.6 is GM dammit!!!!) but I've had occasions with three consecutive under 12 seconds in practice sessions.  The shooting for Outer limits is really not all that special-- it truly is all about the movement.

So are you landing in the 2nd box with your left or right foot? I was always working on the assumption that I wanted to land with my right foot, assuming I could start shooting sooner. Turns out it's actually faster for me to take the first step with my right and land in the box on my left. 

[jkrispies]

I’m left handed, hence me using outside/inside foot to describe everything.  Basically (as a lefty) I’m exiting with my right foot first and entering on my left foot, oftentimes firing my first shot before my right foot is fully planted.  I have to admit to occasionally shooting the enire center box while standing on one foot— not the recommended method, but it can be done!  (Righties in the audience, feel free to reverse.)  

 

While I believe this is the most efficient path of travel, I also don’t think that there’s truly a right or wrong way to go in terms of which foot you lead with, as I’ve seen fast shooters in both camps.  Again, I think the greatest determining factor in step pattern is the length of your stride.  I was a sprinter and hurdler in high school, so my strides are ingrained to be on the long side.  If you’re of shorter stature or have naturally shorter strides all of the above will probably go out the window.  That’s why, when I’m giving advice at the range on this stage’s movement, I prefer to concentrate on the setup for a quick exit, followed by an efficient path of movement, rather than the minutiae of “this foot first/last.”  The individual shooter can naturally sort that out over time on their own.  

Edited March 30, 2018 by jkrispies

[rowdyb]

Edit 121

[jkrispies]

4 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Edit 121

No judgments. ?

[rowdyb]

Still managed a top 10 finish in Production division. I think I might be remove IDPA and replace it with SC as my secondary shooting sport.

[jkrispies]

12 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Still managed a top 10 finish in Production division. I think I might be remove IDPA and replace it with SC as my secondary shooting sport.

Rowdy’s been bit!

[rowdyb]

aaaannd i just ordered the full set of dry fire banners