NIB-X Glock 19 w stock milled slide USPSA Production?

[homeyclaus]

Late last year I scored a Glock 19 with the "NIB-X Battleworn Finish" for a price I could not pass up at a pawn shop. Yeah, I know, it's like ripped jeans, but it's NiB, cleans easily, and for EDC is less likely to rust at the beach FWIW.

 

I also know there are some stock Glocks with more aggressive serrations and they look like they're on the USPSA Production list, but since they're likely different generations and models, that might not be a legitimate argument.

 

Given the slide milling Legal Guns Inc. performed on some percentage of the guns they sold in Gen3 and Gen4 trims, is this USPSA production legal given the volume of the guns produced, and the front serrations on the slide?

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by homeyclaus
Pic uploaded twice for some reason.

[BdelaFuente]

It will be, once the new prod rules go into effect.

[wtturn]

13 minutes ago, BdelaFuente said:

It will be, once the new prod rules go into effect.

 

wrong

[wtturn]

21.2b  "Milling of Slide"

 

A slide may be modified specifically for installing sights, and for no other purpose.

[HoMiE]

20 minutes ago, wtturn said:

21.2b  "Milling of Slide"

 

A slide may be modified specifically for installing sights, and for no other purpose.

Wrong, 21.2a allows for cosmetic purpose, slide serrations are allowed. 21.2b is for cutting holes to lighten slides. 

[Gooldylocks]

4 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Wrong, 21.2a allows for cosmetic purpose, slide serrations are allowed. 21.2b is for cutting holes to lighten slides. 

You are off base... 21.2a is specifically about refinishing.

 

Quote

#21.2a Slide and Frame– refinishing Cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide and/or frame is ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage, and subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage.)

 

[HoMiE]

3 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

You are off base... 21.2a is specifically about refinishing.

 

 

Take a look at the minutes, it says slide front serrations are ok. 

 

[RJH]

I thought the new rules was gonna make everything simple haha

[Gooldylocks]

3 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

Take a look at the minutes, it says slide front serrations are ok. 

 

No... (also that link/picture is broken)

Quote

Motion by Area 8, second by Area 7 to approve amended Appendix D4 as provided.

Roll Call Vote: A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6 by proxy, A7, A8, President-YES

Motion passed.

 

Then if we open the new Appendix D4, we see this:

Quote

21.2a Slide and Frame Refinishing Cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide and/or frame is ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage, and subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage.)

21.2b Milling of Slide A slide may be modified specifically for installing sights, and for no other purpose.

 

The only place front serrations are mentioned is in the proposed allowed changes part of the production "A Critical Point" presentation, but not in the accepted appendix.

[HoMiE]

9 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

No... (also that link/picture is broken)

 

Then if we open the new Appendix D4, we see this:

 

The only place front serrations are mentioned is in the proposed allowed changes part of the production "A Critical Point" presentation, but not in the accepted appendix.

You have to be logged in to USPSA website for link to work. I would say the attached minutes with the PowerPoint go with the rules to provide further clarification of what is allowed. Milling slide for front serrations is considered cosmetic only and no competive advantage. Just like they allow undercutting grip and grip tape on slide. Just like you can now use a lone wolf aftermarket slide that has front serrations. 

[Gooldylocks]

2 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

You have to be logged in to USPSA website for link to work. I would say the attached minutes with the PowerPoint go with the rules to provide further clarification of what is allowed. Milling slide for front serrations is considered cosmetic only and no competive advantage. Just like they allow undercutting grip and grip tape on slide. Just like you can now use a lone wolf aftermarket slide that has front serrations. 

I am logged in, still is nothing. And I completely disagree. They viewed the presentation before the appendix was amended. D4 is the end all be all of the changes, and it disagrees with you. Look at the change log. It too disagrees with your stance.  

 

Quote

UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION.

 

[HoMiE]

https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20180209 17 Production Division.pdf

 

That’s fine if you disagree. I believe it’s already been discussed that front slide serrations are cosmetic, no competitive advantage. Same thing pertains to carry optic except for carry optic the slide cuts can pass through slide. 

[wtturn]

The BoD discussed allowing milling in production. Yes, it was in the presentation.  

 

It was ultimately not approved along with the other changes.  

 

This was confirmed by Jake Martens to me on Facebook.

 

The new Appendix D4 is the final word on production changes, and it is not included.  

 

 

[Ssanders224]

26 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

https://uspsa.org/documents/minutes/20180209 17 Production Division.pdf

 

That’s fine if you disagree. I believe it’s already been discussed that front slide serrations are cosmetic, no competitive advantage. Same thing pertains to carry optic except for carry optic the slide cuts can pass through slide. 

 

No.  This is wrong. 
Cocking serrations have always been specifically allowed in CO.  The bod voted to allow them to pass through the slide. 

Cocking serrations (or cosmetic "milling") are/is not allowed in Prod. 

[HoMiE]

So p320 x5, walther q5, accu shadow, bull shadow, stock I, II, and III are ok in Production but a Glock with front serrations or lone wolf aftermarket slide is no go? Someone must really hate glocks. 

[Ssanders224]

21 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

So p320 x5, walther q5, accu shadow, bull shadow, stock I, II, and III are ok in Production but a Glock with front serrations or lone wolf aftermarket slide is no go? Someone must really hate glocks. 

 

Meh.  My G34 has a big lightening hole cut in slide.  But cutting a hole in a Shadow 2 is illegal??

Someone must hate CZs. 

[HoMiE]

5 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Meh.  My G34 has a big lightening hole cut in slide.  But cutting a hole in a Shadow 2 is illegal??

Someone must hate CZs. 

I don’t get the logic, to many gun owners out there that personalize and trick out their guns and buy aftermarket parts that don’t really amount to any competitive advantage. They show up to shot and we as an organization say nope sorry you have to shoot open or limited because you put grip tape here or have a lone wolf slide, sorry that’s the rules and then they say “competitive shooting” is not for them. But if you buy a shadow 2, you have a production legal gun. As Spock would say, illogical. ?

[Gooldylocks]

2 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

I don’t get the logic, to many gun owners out there that personalize and trick out their guns and buy aftermarket parts that don’t really amount to any competitive advantage. They show up to shot and we as an organization say nope sorry you have to shoot open or limited because you put grip tape here or have a lone wolf slide, sorry that’s the rules and then they say “competitive shooting” is not for them. But if you buy a shadow 2, you have a production legal gun. As Spock would say, illogical. ?

Not illogical at all. The name of the division is literally PRODUCTION. Just because a manufacturer decided to build a baller gun that exactly meets the rules of a division does not mean that it is illogical to prevent people from modifying their guns. If they want a different gun, they should buy a different gun.

 

I don't think the changes will change who wins matches, but I do think they are dumb on principle because they go against the whole spirit of the division. 

[HoMiE]

That shipped has already sailed, there is no production division. 

[BdelaFuente]

5 hours ago, wtturn said:

 

wrong

 

5 hours ago, wtturn said:

21.2b  "Milling of Slide"

 

A slide may be modified specifically for installing sights, and for no other purpose.

yep, my bad, I was thinking carry optics for some reason.

[9x45]

Forget about the serrations, why would you use a G19 in USPSA Production instead of a G34???

[HoMiE]

3 hours ago, 9x45 said:

Forget about the serrations, why would you use a G19 in USPSA Production instead of a G34???

Because some people start out with wanting to get better with what they carry. So they show up or look into shooting and are told they can’t shoot in Production, they would have to shoot in limited against competition double stack single action guns. Why is everyone so scared to let a new person shoot a g19 with some battleworn slide cuts in production division?

[srf]

 

Meh.  My G34 has a big lightening hole cut in slide.  But cutting a hole in a Shadow 2 is illegal??

Someone must hate CZs. 

 

Hey, we’re gun guys - how can you hate CZs or Glocks? My perspective: In USPSA, Steel framed production guns, Stock 2s, Tanfos, CZs, are a very short step from a 9mm Limited SV/STI. The triggers and ergos are great, but you pay substantially (not compared to your average open gun, but for your average Production setup) for that. Guys are paying big money for those ‘production’ platforms. The changes to D4 are going to make the plastic framed guns, and I think Glock as much as any, more competitive and economical. Allowing mods to grips and triggers are a big deal with the Glock platform. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out this season. Let the games begin (well in May anyway).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[9x45]

16 hours ago, HoMiE said:

Because some people start out with wanting to get better with what they carry

 

Yea, I get that part. Sometimes I shoot my Shield, from an IWB appendix holster concealed (Limited), but that is certainly not a good choice for gun games.