EricW Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 There are people abroad, that are not USPSA members that would like to see the results of our National matches, but can't. I know this has been discussed loooong ago, but I'm struck by the irony that USPSA matches are open to everybody, yet not everybody can see the match results. For the life of me I don't understand why someone's right to privacy includes the right to keep EVERYONE'S score hidden at a televised, national match that is open to the public. Everybody would LOVE to see an ESPN or OLN come cover the match. Well, how the heck is *that* supposed to happen if the match results are secret? I don't get it. This has to be one of the most self-defeating policies ever. In fact, I've never heard of another public sporting event EVER that has secret match results. Is there such a thing?! How far does this "right" of privacy go? Why not ban the wailing wall while we're at it? What about the awards ceremonies? Will bouncers be checking ID's at the door? My solution: We put it right in the rulebook. Submitting a match application to a USPSA/IPSC-sanctioned match is a de-facto waiver to publish your name right next to your score. As policy, we double up and put the same statement at the bottom of the match application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 My solution: We put it right in the rulebook. Submitting a match application to a USPSA/IPSC-sanctioned match is a de-facto waiver to publish your name right next to your score. As policy, we double up and put the same statement at the bottom of the match application. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since USPSA is our organization, I think we can go either way on this. I think if I shoot in a major match (like Area 4), I should expect the results to be published. But I'm not sure if I want just anyone to be able to get on the Net and find out which matches I entered, and more importantly, pull up a complete history of all my match scores. Maybe local scores should be private and others should be public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 The other thing to consider is how manufacturers feel about this policy. How would you feel if you were shelling out tens of thousands to sponsor shooter "X", but no one was allowed to see how well shooter "X" crushed the rest of the field with their product? If we, the shooters, like big sponsorship dollars at matches, should we not support policies that are sponsor-friendly? (And also, I would like to note that I'm not attacking USPSA HQ with this poll, as I believe that this policy is the result of USPSA responding to a vocal minority.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Machine-readable? No thanks. If somebody can't be bothered enough to either obtain a USPSA membership or the password in some other way, they don't deserve access to that information. Sponsors should be shouting their sponsoree's names from the rooftops. Anybody waiting for somebody to come by and check on how their random shooter is doing isn't a sponsor, they're a donor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Machine-readable? No thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ?? Splain Lucy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Machine-readable? No thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ?? Splain Lucy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Internet search-engine findable. Last thing we need is somebody pulling up the match results in Google, throwing it into an address-search and robbing all those nice gunowners that we know are going to be in Barry, IL for the rest of the week since they're on the interim results. This is the primary reason our club web site (which I set up) has a brain-dead password on the results section. The hurdle is very small, but just requiring people and search-bots to jump it cuts down the problems 900% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Machine-readable? No thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ?? Splain Lucy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Internet search-engine findable. Last thing we need is somebody pulling up the match results in Google, throwing it into an address-search and robbing all those nice gunowners that we know are going to be in Barry, IL for the rest of the week since they're on the interim results. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And they can do a search for my motel room reservation and rental car licence plate number? I think the people running the motel already know I have guns based on my asking for the USPSA discount at check-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Um, you try and rob the peoples houses while they aren't there. That's how it works in the USA. A fair number of shooters are 'closet' shooters for one reason or another. Think about the Oklahoma employees that all got fired for having guns in their cars on the first day of hunting season. If your anti-gun-company person can just chuck your name into Google and have "United States Practical Pistol Championships" come up, they're probably going to be looking a little harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Too late, Shred. The squad lists are on the public side of the website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Just put a robots.txt file in the root level of the website and disallow the directory the results pages are in. Cake and eat it as far as bots go. Just participating on this forum could do the same thing as far as letting non-desireables know when we are heading off to Timbuktu for a match (yeah, incognito is the way some participate here, but not I) Just the fact that we have lots of guns and know how to use them real well should make us a less desireable target than someone heading off for a golf weekend who has his golf scores posted on some open website. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Assuming it's actually a "well intentioned" bot, anyhow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Assuming it's actually a "well intentioned" bot, anyhow.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> easily trapped and caught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 It's the search engine bots that allow results to be searched and found, so thats the one you want to keep out and they do obey the rules. A simple password is not gonna keep a bad intentioned visitir out if there is any savvy at play ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm struck by the irony that USPSA matches are open to everybody ObNote: They aren't. To shoot the Nationals (or any US match Level-II or above), one must be either a member of USPSA, or a member of another IPSC region. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think results should be publicly available to anyone, there are plenty of shooters that arent uspsa members for some reason or another that shouldnt be forced into a membership just to view there results, even non-uspsa members support the sport by coming to a match....from what Ive noticed roughly 20% arent members that shoot my local clubs matches. I would hate to see them lose anyone due to forcing a membership on them, if they choose not to become a member, so be it, it doesnt mean they do not support the club or uspsa. I post results for the ohio section and it was brought to my attention a few months ago about folks not wishing to have there name posted which is fine with me, I posted a notice on the match results page and do not have a problem with removing anyones names from any posted results...no one has asked to be removed yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I post most of our local results by first name and last name inital only. Not an end all solution, but some have requested this I know I know if you have the USPSA # why bother? I dont know big brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think this is simple, if you are afraid of someone seeing your results, register an fake name when you sign up for the match (ala Cowboy Action) ie. Crusty the Clown. Problem fixed, simple, cheap, easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I realize the nationals squadding is on-line, however, the USPSA web based results system does not currently allow us to provide different levels of access for different matches. Results are posted and maintained by an automated process, which prevents "customizing" each one. To the best of my knowledge, the complaints about inclusion of names in results were at the local match level from people who are not widely recognizable. The issues go beyond theft of guns - some people may choose not to advertise their politics. Non-tenured public school teachers might find it strategically unwise to take the "moral high ground", and people interviewing for postmaster may not want to flaunt their gun status either. The improved results system will make first names available to anyone, full names available to members, and will eventually have a setting allowing a major match to designate that the results will be "fully public" (ie, first and last names shown for everyone). This is going to take a while as it's a medium/low priority spare time project and - even if it was ready now, I would not change the system while the nationals are in progress as any change bring sthe risk of new bugs. I could put in a "non-member, results only" password for local matches, however, I am reluctant to do something to remove an incentive to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm struck by the irony that USPSA matches are open to everybody ObNote: They aren't. To shoot the Nationals (or any US match Level-II or above), one must be either a member of USPSA, or a member of another IPSC region. B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand that part, but it's not like there are guards at the gate preventing spectators from entering the range, or are there? When the results hit the wailing wall, is that not essentially "publicly displayed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iweiny Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I don't mean to break the rules on discussing politics or about bickering or whining but... The fact that some people in this sport, or any shooting sport, feels as though they must hide the fact that they participate in those sports really shows how f***ed up our society is. I am not saying that I don't understand how some people feel but I make it a point to not hide what I do. I don't know, perhaps being from California where it seems everyone is "coming out of the closet", I guess I feel like I have a right to be who I am, even if that is a striaght, married, white, man who likes to drive jeeps and shoot guns. As far as privacy is concerned I feel that, _YES_, keeping things like address and phone numbers protected is vital to keep the "bad guys" at bay. However, I am proud to have my name on a website affiliating myself with the sports I participate in and love. I think the post which said they would honor someones wishes to have their name removed is a good idea. However, I think this is one of the areas where we as gun owners should speak out. Although, I don't make it a point to push my shooting on everyone, if the subject comes up, I don't hide the fact. What we are doing is legal, safe, and fun. The attitude that many people seem to have; that someone is a criminal just by owning a gun; _MUST_ change if our sports are to survive. Therefore, I think that showing those who would judge you that you are just another _responsible_ gun owner goes a long way... <end_rant> Ira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The attitude that many people seem to have; that someone is a criminal just by owning a gun Heh. A couple of years back I worked for a *very* liberal-minded company, in (very liberal) Seattle. At one point, one of the "ladies" I worked with figured out that I was into guns, came into my office (tie-died muu-muu, birkenstocks, unshaven legs and all) and started reading me the riot act, shouting (literally) at me that guns are what is wrong with society, anyone who likes guns should be locked up because they clearly have repressed criminal tendencies, studies have shown that gun-owners murder family members, etc, etc, etc. I waited until she was done, and said "you're not being very tolerant of my diversity. Don't you think you should be more respectful of my lifestyle choices?" Her jaw hit the ground, she sputtered a couple of times, and left. Never said another word to me. *ever*. [/thread-drift] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Local results are available to anyone online, and that doesn't freak me out at all. However I voted NO on the poll. My theory is who cares what anyone's score is (besides USPSA members), and if they do, they can join USPSA or continue to wonder. No way do I see this as a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The attitude that many people seem to have; that someone is a criminal just by owning a gun At one point, one of the "ladies" I worked with figured out that I was into guns... [/thread-drift] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are two sides of this coin. The Sr. VP of the fortune 500 firm where I work heard a similar story about me, and came by to ask if the rumors I owned a 45 are true. After I replied "not exactly A 45", the followup was "what license to I need to get one, which one should I buy, and where do I get one?" 6 months later he had spent over $10K on gear, become a life member of the NRA, bought a 1050 and joined USPSA. Another conversation I had at work: Other person: So, how many guns do you own? Me: I don't know. Other person: What do you mean you don't know? Me: How many pair of socks do you own? Other person: You're not kidding are you? Me: Nope, but if I ever need to know I'll open up the safe and count them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iweiny Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'm sorry for my rant. I am just tired of being treated like a criminal. Back to the point... I like our results posted on the web. And the local match workers are very good at getting them posted ASAP, thanks to them. I vote yes, Ira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Other person: So, how many guns do you own?Me: I don't know. Other person: What do you mean you don't know? Me: How many pair of socks do you own? Other person: You're not kidding are you? Me: Nope, but if I ever need to know I'll open up the safe and count them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I normally answer this one with "My wife doesn't even know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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