Brass Blowout. Need opinion

[theWacoKid]

2 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

I'm not a Glock expert, so please explain how you have an out of battery firing with that mechanism.  I thought the striker was blocked until the slide is fully forward.

 

I've had an out of battery Glock drop the striker so far out of battery it DIDN'T ignite the primer.  Lucked out big time on that one.

 

Glocks are notorious for their ability to fire out of battery.  Take a Glock, unload it, unload it again, and push it muzzle first into a surface and see how far you can get it out of battery and still drop the striker.  It's a good ways. 

[GrumpyOne]

4 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

I'm not a Glock expert, so please explain how you have an out of battery firing with that mechanism.  I thought the striker was blocked until the slide is fully forward.  Also, I have seen several 1911 and Glock kabooms resulting from overcharges and end result was very similar to what the OP posted. 

 

 

[ltdmstr]

Very interesting.  Thanks for the videos.

[RJH]

I  don't think either of those videos show a glock firing out of battery.  I can do the same thing with my 1911 (and I bet you can too).  To actually see if the guns would fire out of battery you would need to see at what point it would still pop a primer, otherwise all you are seeing is how far back you can have the slide and still release the sear.  You cant tell from those videos if the striker will still be able to hit the primer with enough energy to make it fire or hit it at all if the striker safety was still activated.  You also still wouldn't be able to tell if it  would be unlocked enough to actually blow out  a case without trying it and possibly sacrificing a gun.  I am of the belief that if all the factory safety mechanisms are still intact, and a person is firing saami spec ammo, then the barrel will be locked up enough to hold case pressure.  And I don't even like glocks

[Miranda]

I am glad you are not hurt.

 

any chance you have some cases fired before that one? and can take a picture of them?

perhaps  a picture of the other side of that broken case?

 

last time I saw a thread like this, the consensus was that the brass was old and had hidden flaws.

(there was also a pointed discussion that glocks never fired out of battery...)

from the photo and what I can see, the case looks like it was fully seated.

that leads to either  over pressure causing the failure or a case failure during otherwise normal firing.

 

you could be lucky, a weak case, with  a little extra powder and the bullet sets back a bit cause it is a bit fat

and then... the back of the case not fully in the chamber....

 

so check that you can or can't fire  a little out of battery. things wear.

plunk test the ammo to make sure the round went fully into the chamber. 

or caused a setback.

 

I mostly blame unsupported chambers, and that causes fights... 

ah why am I laughing? 

 

I read you have an aftermarket barrel in there so hopefully it is only as bad as a weak cartridge case.

shure is scary....

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ltdmstr]

You could take a spent case and fill the primer hole with clay then try to fire like in the video.  If the striker hits the primer you'll be able to see it in the clay.

[theWacoKid]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

I  don't think either of those videos show a glock firing out of battery.  I can do the same thing with my 1911 (and I bet you can too).  To actually see if the guns would fire out of battery you would need to see at what point it would still pop a primer, otherwise all you are seeing is how far back you can have the slide and still release the sear.  You cant tell from those videos if the striker will still be able to hit the primer with enough energy to make it fire or hit it at all if the striker safety was still activated.  You also still wouldn't be able to tell if it  would be unlocked enough to actually blow out  a case without trying it and possibly sacrificing a gun.  I am of the belief that if all the factory safety mechanisms are still intact, and a person is firing saami spec ammo, then the barrel will be locked up enough to hold case pressure.  And I don't even like glocks

 

First hand experience here. When my Glock dropped the striker out of battery there was a striker mark on the primer. No doubt in my mind the right primer would have ignited. 

 

One 2011 I've seen do it was a repeat offender that was known to hang up slightly out of battery and was known to be capable of dropping the hammer from that position. Perfect storm of very tight chamber and disconnector that engaged the sear a little earlier than most 2011's I've tested. Most 2011's have no firing pin safety so if the hammer falls on the firing pin it's coming through the firing pin hole. 

[RJH]

2 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

First hand experience here. When my Glock dropped the striker out of battery there was a striker mark on the primer. No doubt in my mind the right primer would have ignited. 

 

 

 

Every AR and M1 that I have seen will mark primers when you drop the bolt on a new round and they generally don't light off a round when loading , so marking a primer is not indicative that a round would definitely fire.  And it sounds like the 2011 had the disco and such messed up so I would lean towards all the safety mechanisms not being intact there.  However, if the slide was very far back on the 2011 (an 1/8th or so), I doubt the gun would have fired anyway as the hammer would have hit the  bottom of the firing pin stop

 

And I still think the OP had an overcharged round :-)

[theWacoKid]

There is a reason hard primers are used in those rifles. A mark on a primer is indicative of a chance for ignition. A certainty?  No. Possible? Absolutely. 

 

It's cool you know so much about a $7k 2011 you've never touched that was deemed to be operating as designed, though I wasn't in agreement.  I'm stating for fact it will fire slightly out of battery. But everyone is allowed to make up their own mind. 

[RJH]

43 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

There is a reason hard primers are used in those rifles. A mark on a primer is indicative of a chance for ignition. A certainty?  No. Possible? Absolutely. 

 

It's cool you know so much about a $7k 2011 you've never touched that was deemed to be operating as designed, though I wasn't in agreement.  I'm stating for fact it will fire slightly out of battery. But everyone is allowed to make up their own mind. 

 

So did the glock or the 2011 ever fire far enough  out of battery to rupture a case?  I don't doubt that the hammer or striker will drop with the slide slightly to the rear, the real question is that is the gun actually out of battery enough for the case to be unsupported.   While you are correct that I haven't seen your gun, on my, and I suspect most 1911/2011 guns, when the slide moves slightly to the rear, 1/16 of an inch or so, there is a gap between the hammer and the firing pin, this is one of the safeties built into the gun I was talking about.  So have your guns ever to your knowledge, ever fired (not dropped a hammer or striker, but actually lit a primer)  far enough out of battery to rupture a case or damage the gun?  I am actually really curious and not trying to be a smartass, sometimes tone doesn't come across in the interwebs :-)

[theWacoKid]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

So did the glock or the 2011 ever fire far enough  out of battery to rupture a case?  I don't doubt that the hammer or striker will drop with the slide slightly to the rear, the real question is that is the gun actually out of battery enough for the case to be unsupported.   While you are correct that I haven't seen your gun, on my, and I suspect most 1911/2011 guns, when the slide moves slightly to the rear, 1/16 of an inch or so, there is a gap between the hammer and the firing pin, this is one of the safeties built into the gun I was talking about.  So have your guns ever to your knowledge, ever fired (not dropped a hammer or striker, but actually lit a primer)  far enough out of battery to rupture a case or damage the gun?  I am actually really curious and not trying to be a smartass, sometimes tone doesn't come across in the interwebs :-)

 

Yes. The 2011 is not mine personally but as stated earlier was a multiple time offender. Blows out case bottom with an odd muffled boom and lots of smoke. Confirmed issue of firing out of battery. 

 

I've punctured case bottoms from worn out cases completely in battery, but it's barely noticeable. 

 

The Glock was a close call I immediately realized could've been very exciting. No question it could've gone boom. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by theWacoKid

[GrumpyOne]

This is the result of a worn out case fired in a not fully supported chamber.  Notice how the case is not completely destroyed? 

 

[RJH]

Interesting, I would think that the bottom of the firing pin retainer would have to be chopped at to severe of an angle to allow that to happen.  I would be taking it back to the gunsmith too.  But that is kinda what I was talking about earlier.  Having the retainer cut so that the firing pin can get struck without the gun being in pretty much fully in battery is a lot like when people disable the striker block safety on striker guns.  If people take the built in safeties out of guns, they are asking for trouble and I find it hard to blame the gun, but easy to blame the smith

[RJH]

3 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

This is the result of a worn out case fired in a not fully supported chamber.  Notice how the case is not completely destroyed? 

 

 

And it doesn't look like crazy overpressure like the OPs photo

[theWacoKid]

53 minutes ago, RJH said:

Interesting, I would think that the bottom of the firing pin retainer would have to be chopped at to severe of an angle to allow that to happen.

 

Take a look at a 2011 again. Doesn't take much of a firing pin radius to allow the hammer access to the firing pin a bit out of battery. The disconnector is more the issue allowing the trigger to work out of battery. 

 

Also the issue isn't just how much unsupported case is there at ignition but that the gun is already cheated out of battery and not locked up so the immediate slide motion creates even more unsupported case. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by theWacoKid

[GrumpyOne]

It was a very light load. Fired in an old Colt 1911 38super.

[Jht05016]

So i do have some experience with this, in 2011s.  There is a very fine line between going off and not going off...  my 1050 found that line for me.  The SV AET barrels give literally 0 wiggle room for case length.  I loaded a batch of ammo that had just slightly high primers.  Enough to hold the slide to the perfect amount for a case failure.  2x on the same batch.  Till i discovered the flaw, hand seated the remainder of the primers, and shot the remaining 600 rounds with no issues.  It can also happen with crimped brass that still has a little bump of brass ring on the back.  But it CAN happen.  Every sv i have ever handled is capable of dropping the hammer the same amount out of battery as that gun.

https://imgur.com/1RTOahM

[Jht05016]

That being said, once i got my brass sorting in order and added primer checking to the top of my list..  these are the most reliable and accurate open guns i have ever owned.

[RJH]

46 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

Take a look at a 2011 again. Doesn't take much of a firing pin radius to allow the hammer access to the firing pin a bit out of battery. The disconnector is more the issue allowing the trigger to work out of battery. 

 

Also the issue isn't just how much unsupported case is there at ignition but that the gun is already cheated out of battery and not locked up so the immediate slide motion creates even more unsupported case. 

 

I just double checked and mine (1911) is radiused quite a bit , but still only moves about 1/2 the distance till the barrel starts to drop before it will no longer hit the firing pin (about 1/16 of an inch).  I do get the that the barrel is not going to be delayed quite as much, but still think that the OPs gun was way over charged.  Looking at the 2 pics that have been put up in the last hour, the brass is not nearly as deformed.  What did the brass look like on your buddy's gun?  

[Jht05016]

1 minute ago, RJH said:

 

I just double checked and mine (1911) is radiused quite a bit , but still only moves about 1/2 the distance till the barrel starts to drop before it will no longer hit the firing pin (about 1/16 of an inch).  I do get the that the barrel is not going to be delayed quite as much, but still think that the OPs gun was way over charged.  Looking at the 2 pics that have been put up in the last hour, the brass is not nearly as deformed.  What did the brass look like on your buddy's gun?  

He is talking about me, check my last post

[theWacoKid]

31 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

I just double checked and mine (1911) is radiused quite a bit , but still only moves about 1/2 the distance till the barrel starts to drop before it will no longer hit the firing pin (about 1/16 of an inch).  I do get the that the barrel is not going to be delayed quite as much, but still think that the OPs gun was way over charged.  Looking at the 2 pics that have been put up in the last hour, the brass is not nearly as deformed.  What did the brass look like on your buddy's gun?  

 

I don't know for sure what happen to the OP's gun. It could be either, funnier things have happened.

 

However I do know:

1) Overcharges of titegroup more often look like the blown up guns in this thread. Very bad and Elmer Fudd barrel at the least . 

2) Blown and unsupported cases normally have a telltale base rupture on the bottom side. 

3) Ruptures (case or gun) with faster burning powders tend to look more severe. 

 

OP's gun resembles #2 and used a fast powder.  Is it definitive?  Nope. 

[Mac_Menamy]

There has been a plethora of knowledge being passed around here and I am very grateful. Unfortunately, I do not have any more pictures and I know longer have the gun. The owner of the ammo company has it to repair whatever is messed up from the blowout (although, he says everything is fine and within specs). I just want to make sure my gun is safe to use once I get it back. Unfortunately, we may never know what actually caused this to happen. I wish I would of been more aware of what happened when it did. Shock kind of took over once I couldn’t rack the slide back. 

[obsessiveshooter]

I had the same thing happened to me with my G35 limited gun. It blew out the magazine, trigger and magazine release. The brass looks similar too. I made the rounds myself, I think it was a piece of range brass that had a very weak spot in it. Shortly after, a friend's Glock did the same thing with his reloads, and left a huge blood blister on his thumb. Since I reload with range brass, I sold the Glock and bought a CZ.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Southpaw]

On 1/2/2018 at 10:41 PM, Mac_Menamy said:

There has been a plethora of knowledge being passed around here and I am very grateful. Unfortunately, I do not have any more pictures and I know longer have the gun. The owner of the ammo company has it to repair whatever is messed up from the blowout (although, he says everything is fine and within specs). I just want to make sure my gun is safe to use once I get it back. Unfortunately, we may never know what actually caused this to happen. I wish I would of been more aware of what happened when it did. Shock kind of took over once I couldn’t rack the slide back. 

 

There's a chunk missing from the slide and he says gun is fine?! That gun should be sent to Glock for inspection/repair at ammo mfgs expensive. At the least they'll replace the cracked slide. I wouldn't trust the ammo mfg to inspect the Glock, let Glock do that. Is this a large ammo mfg or some guy selling ammo he  loaded in his garage?

[Miranda]

2 hours ago, Southpaw said:

 

There's a chunk missing from the slide and he says gun is fine?! That gun should be sent to Glock for inspection/repair at ammo mfgs expensive. At the least they'll replace the cracked slide. I wouldn't trust the ammo mfg to inspect the Glock, let Glock do that. Is this a large ammo mfg or some guy selling ammo he  loaded in his garage?

 

He has an aftermarket barrel in it, so that should be swapped out before it is sent to Glock.

 

I was told in no uncertain terms that Glock barrels are the worlds best engineered items and are never involved in blowouts.

I do not know about the chamber of the barrel in this blowout.

 

one of the reasons I did not buy a glock back then was I did not like the amount of area I thought as unsupported.

It is hard to guess the cause here.

it looks mostly like that area of study between 'unsupported' and weak case.

 

miranda