Nik Habicht Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Brian, I'd be worried about tumbling in an inventilated space. Does the house have central air/forced air heat? Where's the air intake? Anywhere near your work area? My tumbler lives in the garage and when I empty it, I do so with the garage doors open. The dust from the media is supposed to be bad as well. My take? If it's easy to put a fan in ---- a well ventilated space is better than an unventilated one. And if you can get the tumbler out of there, so much the better. If not maybe a media separator cabinet with a fan in it against that wall? Let us know if you come up with anything ingenious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Nik, That’s a great idea! One of the problems with putting a tumbler in a cabinet is with no airflow is that they can overheat. By installing a fan AND venting to the outside you can kill two birds with one stone, and maybe not be killing ourselves all at the same time. I like it. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Nik and Ed, Don't your tumblers have lids? There is a huge difference in dust reduction by using the lid, ensuring that it is firmly screwed down during operation and then, if possible emptying it outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I'd be worried about tumbling in an inventilated space. Does the house have central air/forced air heat? Where's the air intake? Anywhere near your work area? Okay, now I'm really concerned!! Yes, I tumble in my shop. Yes, we have central/forced air. And yes, the intake is probably no more than 15 feet from my tumbler. I think I'll follow your advice and tumble in the garage until I act on plan B and install an exhaust fan of some type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 George D, Does it have a lid? Of course it does, however, I have a Lyman and the lid has an open "grid"(for lack of a better description). I have it in a corner of my bench and after 2-3 hours of tumbling there's a fine dust all over everything... yikes! My only saving grace is that my bench is in the garage and well away from AC/heating air pick-ups. Until I can get my "Nik box" built I'm going to set the tumbler outside when in use or, as you recommend, empting it. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Yes my Tumbler has a lid ---- and it's tight. (It's the big Dillon tumbler) I notice an immense amount of media dust when I dump the contents into the Media separator and then turn it's handle. The crap that the media scrubs out can't be good for your lungs ---- and in dust form it's easily inhaled. Back when I used to tumble in the basement in our last house, I used get an asthma attack about half of the time. At the new place the tumbler got sentenced to the garage by my wife ---- for noise reasons ---- and I've noticed that the amount of ventilation and fresh air means I don't inhale that crap anymore, hence no asthma attacks. And she says I have no common sense.... Brian ----- the tumbling itself is probably fine --- I'd worry about separating the brass from the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Brian ----- the tumbling itself is probably fine --- I'd worry about separating the brass from the media. Nik, got it. The whole thing is moving to the garage until I clear up the ventilation issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Ed, An "open grid" lid would be a worry for me. On the odd occassion that I have neglected to put the (solid) lid on my Hornady tumbler there has been dust over the tumbler and the area all around it. With a solid lid the problem reverts, as Nik said, entirely to the separation process. Wearing a filter mask and doing the separation outside reduces this risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Leave the lid off the big Dillon tumbler and it will empty itself in short order ....... don't ask me how I know, it another one of those "no common sense" stories.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 George D, This is just quick note to thank you for all of the solid information about lead and reloading that you’ve posted. I’ve read it all and, quite frankly, learned a lot about something that I’ve always taken for granted. That’s what’s so great about this forum, people taking the time to help others! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Your welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Miguez Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I had a problem with lead poisioning about 6 months ago. My lead level was 45 which is high. The reason being I shot alot of lead indoors. My mother bought some detoxifier drops,chlorella pills, and an ion solution for me to take. I started taking the above and dropped my level down to 27 in a month and a half. After this I slacked of taking them and only dropped down to 22 over the next 3 monthes. My lead level of 45 was way too high and I was having side effects which I noticed in my speech. Now that they are down in the 20s I feel fine again. My suggestions are: 1)Get a lead test (it only cost 20 dollars) 2)Wash your hands before eating 3)Tumble your brass outside 4)Shot more jacketed if possible 5)Buy some detoxifiers Blake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 My lead level of 45 was way too high and I was having side effects which I noticed in my speech. Blake, What were the actual side effects/symptoms that you were having? Oh - and welcome - it's nice to have you here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 i think blake started acting like max michel, jr. : just kidding!!! i reduce my lead levels by not shooting indoors, using cmj bullets, and stopped snacking on paint chips. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Miguez Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 My 45 lead level put me into the very bottom of the danger area of lead poisioning (when side effects start). The only side effects I noticed were in my speech which were very minor. Sometimes in a conversation with someone I couldn't finish pronouncing a word, studdering, and starting new lines of speech before the last ones were finished. I know alot of people from where I live speak like this but this was never a prior problem for me. Now that my levels are down I don't see these problems anymore. Really high level of lead can cause brain damage or damage to the nervous system. I'm glad I lowered my lead level before I could get to that point. Blake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddS Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I'm currently involved in my agency's building of a new $8m gun range and I had no idea how harmful lead is until this thing started a year ago. We have dedicated it to non-tox ammo use and the entire Fed Gov is leading the way (leeding that is) Phil was right about the ingestion occurring primarily through the mouth, nose, and eyes. Airborne lead is the most dangerous. You need to be in an area well ventilated, wash your hands and face after exposure, don't pick up brass and put it in your pockets or hat, and don't eat , smoke, or rub your eyes until you have washed thoroughly. Primers are a minor source, but bullets breaking up on targets and steel traps are the worst creator of airbone lead particulate. All that said, the biggest danger is to people who wish to have kids, it effects reproductive systems in the body most of all. If you are past that point in your life, it takes substantial amounts in the system to effect general health. Reloding is very safe as long as you wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowter Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 1)Get a lead test (it only cost 20 dollars)Blake Sounds like a fine idea. Do you have any recommendations of where to get one or is it just one of those things that you have to go to a doctor to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Miguez Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Any kind of medical clinic can give you a lead test. They take a tube full of blood and sent it off to a lab. My results took two days. I got mine done at the same clinic my father's company sends its employees to recieve drug test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Don't forget that unless your range has one of those lead sticky mats by the door your tracking lead into your home and vehicle. Don't wash your range clothes with you other clothes unless you want all your clothes to have lead on them. I'm moving my tumbler out of my basement. I really wish I knew this before now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 If you really want to be safe you could do the OSHA medical monitoring. You go get a $250 physical every 1-2 years. The physical includes bloodwork for known pathogens, hearing and eye test, chest xray, spirometry(this test blows), reflexes, etc. You get a handy report aftwards that explains all of your blood levels, lung capacity, and general health. When you retake a physical in a year or so you get a chart comparinge the orignal physical to the current one. It costs a bit but is worth it. You can tell fairly quickly if you are doing something derogitory to your health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 When I used to shoot PPC and NRA Action Pistol a great deal with my revolvers using 148g HBWC I had a lead level of 50 ppm. After cutting out the indoor range and the lead bullets my level dropped by half in a year. The trick here is to wear gloves when you handle lead and STAY OUT OF INDOOR RANGES. Doesn't really matter if your shooting jacketed ammo or not, the lead has infested the entire range well before you shoot there. No one to my knowledge markets lead free primers yet but when I shoot IPSC/USPSA Production division or IDPA SSP/SSR division I use Winchester Win-Clean factory ammo. It's close cost wise to reloading and WAY cheaper and less painful than dialysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hey, this might be of interest to some. In an effort to reduce airbirne dust I am making a media separator from 1/4 inch grid hardware cloth in a square shape that fits in a 5 gal bucket. Total cost: Less than $10 bucks plus bucket and lid. With the lid on you will have no dust when separating media from brass. All materials available at local Home depot or similar store. Glad to furnish details if anyones interested. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Travis, What a great idea! Let me see if I can figure it out myself… ¼” hardware cloth; cut so it forms a lower case “t”. The center of the t is the bottom, fold the four sides up and wire or hog ring the corners to form the box with the long one folded to make a top with it’s own hinge. Put the box in the bucket with a short 2 X 4 or some other block to create a void for the media to go, put the lid on and shake, shake, shake, wait until the dust settles and open it up… beautiful! Here’s useful formula for figuring the size of the box, take the inside diameter of the bucket and divide by 1.4142 and the sum will be the length of the side of you box. I’ll show you, I don’t have a 5-gallon bucket here but lets assume it’s 12 ½” ID, divide 12.5 by 1.1412 and the sum is 8.839, now our grid in the hardware cloth is ¼” and we need a little clearance so we’ll cut it at 8 ½” and it should fit fine. I’ve got to go sight in my new pin gun (shoot’s tomorrow) and then I’m swinging by Home Depot and picking up the stuff to do this! Thanks again! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 I have a little different configuration in mind, but yours ought to work also. I formed a square of hardware cloth that fits in lengthwise ( top to biottom ), blocked off apx 1/3 of the way up with another piece. Zip ties hold it together well. Top of square is secured to ring of hardware cloth right below lid seal with the excess material that needed to be moved to allow square to fit in bucket. Anyway, I'll get it finished tonite and see if it works as well as I think it will. Any reduction in exposure to lead is worth pursuing. And this one fits well with the " Cheap bastard " in me. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Guys, this media seperator is a great idea. I will be building one of these this weekend with two 5 gallon plastic buckets. I have had a similiar experience to alot of the users here. This last december, my wife and I decided to get our lead levels checked and found that hers was 28 and mine was 38! We had been shooting about once a week at an indoor range administered by the rfile club we belong to here in San Jose. We would spend 5-6 hours a night shooting IDPA like stages. We were not shooting cast bullets but others were. We have since cut our indoor range time to about an hour at the most indoors and wear masks from our local home depot that are rated for hazardous dusts. Most of our shooting has now moved to outdoor events. I also handload and have started wearing rubber gloves when loading and especially when handling fired cases. Over the last 5 months my level has dropped down to 15. We use west coast plated bullets exclusively. Since the bullet is completely plated with copper, the base of the bullet is not vaporized as with cast. We definitely did not take the hazard seriously enough. Hopefully our experience will be a lesson to those who don't think the hazard is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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