snokid Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Well one of the guys that I shoot with often had a lead test and his level was very high. I don't know the number because I haven't talked to him yet, Because he hasn't been around for a couple of weeks since he found out. Is lead exposure something to worry about? If it is what can I do about it? should I get tested? sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Bob, Do I know him? I don't think it's a huge problem, you only really shoot indoors during the winter right? Can't hurt to be tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Sno, This is something I wonder about also having shot ALOT of plain lead bullets mostly indoors. But according to Lee the real hazard is the dust from your tumbler which contains even more toxic lead compounds. If you get tested you might try to find a way that wont show up on your insurance, might not be a problem but I am not sure. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Jake yhea you should know him, I don't want to say his name on here but he is at most matches...he shoots glocks both in idpa and ipsc... I will tell you his name next time I see you... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 Travis---I kind of get lucky with the tumbling part of reloading, I don't have to do it, I reload for me and two other guys, each guy has a part of the process. Guy 1 gathers all the supplys and delivers them to me, guy 2 tumbles all the brass, guy 3 (me) reloads it all....with one exception everybody pulls the handle a few times a month, just so I can say in court "I don't know for sure that I reloaded that particular round that missfired" This guy that has a high lead level does shoot alot, but they are all jacketed bullets, he shoots a couple of days a week indoor and usually two outdoor matches during the warmer season each week. Up to about a month ago I would go to the indoor range 3-4 times a week and around 6 matches a month. But I used to smoke and drink soda while between breaks to let my gun cool down. Two very big no no's I have come to find out. I think I'm going to get tested, just for peace of mind...or maybe to scare the crap out of me. sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 The smoking and the eating with "shooter/reloader" hands can be bad. A little soap and water never hert anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWLS Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 You should get tested. I got tested at work and was high at 34. I stayed out of my local indoor range for two months and dropped to a (still high) 26. Most indoor ranges suck, air quality wise. For as much as most of us are practicing, we are probably being exposed to a LOT more than we realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I'll say this: No matter what indoor range I've been in and no matter how good their ventillation system, I've sneezed gray crud for two days after I've shot....and that's only after an hour or two in the bays at most. I think I'd rather just shoot in the rain and the cold. The consequences just aren't worth it. There's no way I'd let a youngster sit in an indoor range for any length of time. They are at the most susceptible age for lead poisoning. (Just my little ol' opinion here. Holster your flamethrower.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Just to add a little info, Most of the lead exposure in shooting comes from the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 It is bad, both loading and shooting. I wear latex gloves and a surgical mask loading and DO NOT shoot indoors at all. lead poisioning is cumulative, and if your number is high now the only way to get it down it to abstain. The primer residue is the worst, but dust from tumblers and smoke from fluxing your lead if you cast is equally bad. the short term effects are usually not too bad, but long term, anything can happen and usually will. Need to be very careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Working for the Firearms Training Section for a Federal agency, I'm required to have my blood lead levels checked every six months. Of all the lead risks a person is exposed to, over 98% is absorbed through injestion (nose and mouth). As far as reloading ammo goes, any exposure would come from an open wound or blister on the fingers actually handling the bullet heads. Otherwise, there is almost zero risk of exposure to lead while reloading. If you decide to eat or drink something without washing your hands afterwards, then you're gonna have problems. There is a substantial risk of exposure while tumbling and separating dirty brass. This should be done outdoors or in a heavily ventilated area. If you shoot, the primer explosion and unburnt powder account for much of the lead exposure during shooting. If using lead bullets, the risk becomes a bit higher. Additionally, after shooting, wash your hands AND FACE. Remember, most leading occurs via the nose and mouth.....the FACE is the most important part to wash. If you shoot more than twice a week, get tested. I work the range for the US Capitol Police, then go to my store (indoor range) at night. My lead count is b/t 15-20 mcg/dcl and sometimes as low as 10 mcg/dcl. If simply exercising personal hygiene doesn't do the trick, start a forum and I'll give some nutritional advice (vitamin supplements) that works very well. Hope this helps, Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 6, 2003 Author Share Posted March 6, 2003 Phil Thanks for the great tips... I would of never thought of washing my face also... One thing I can add is to use cold water, as hot water opens the pores on your skin... sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Teflon coated projectiles are supposed to reduce exposure risk for both loading and shooting. Any comments on this theory?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Quote: from George D on 4:25 pm on Mar. 6, 2003 Teflon coated projectiles are supposed to reduce exposure risk for both loading and shooting. Any comments on this theory?? If the primary source of lead while shooting is from the primer, how could it possibly matter? As for exposure reduction while loading, I would say that it's worthwhile. If I had small children in my home, fully coated bullets or total metal jackets would be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Quote: from EricW on 12:42 pm on Mar. 7, 2003 Quote: from George D on 4:25 pm on Mar. 6, 2003Teflon coated projectiles are supposed to reduce exposure risk for both loading and shooting. Any comments on this theory?? If the primary source of lead while shooting is from the primer, how could it possibly matter? I must admit that I was not aware that the primer was a source of lead poisoning. I did some searching on the net and found an interesting article at this address: http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97lead.html The author draws a conclusion that "Copper-covered bullets decrease the air lead by more than 90 percent and significantly reduce the risk of lead poisoning." I would think that a significant reduction might be acheived by teflon coated projectiles as well. He goes on to recommend a series of strategies to reduce risk. Recommendations I have fun shooting and would like to continue to enjoy this sport, but I also want to protect myself from lead poisoning. To minimize the risk of lead poisoning, I suggest shooters take the following steps: • Use copper-covered bullets. • Do not shoot in a poorly ventilated indoor range. • Do not clean up lead dust in an indoor range without the use of a protective air filter. • Do not clean up the lead fragments against the backstop without the use of a protective air filter. • Avoid shooting on days when the wind is blowing toward you. • Consider limiting the time you shoot on a busy range to minimize exposure to second hand lead. • Consider sending as few shooters as possible to score or put up new targets in an indoor range since the air lead is highest at the target. Share this risk. • Do not eat while shooting. After shooting, wash your hands thoroughly before you eat. • Do not smoke while shooting. After shooting, wash your hands thoroughly before you smoke. • Leave indoor ranges immediately after shooting. • Change your shirt after shooting to avoid exposure to the lead that accumulates on your clothes. Wash your clothes after a trip to the range. • Have your blood lead checked if you shoot on a weekly basis, if you shoot or reload more than 500 rounds a month, or if you develop any symptoms of lead poisoning. • Consider wearing a protective air filter if your blood lead is elevated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I've done some more searching on the web and have found three sites with valuable information: http://markco.gunsnet.net/lead.html http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Heider/LeadHazards.htm http://www.sixguns.com/crew/lead.html I came across a number of sites that recommended the use of lead-free primers but none actually nominated which brands were lead-free and which were not. I noted that Federal primers claim to be non-mercuric and non corrosive but also carry a general warning about the dangers of lead in shooting. Does anyone know of a brand of primer that is non-lead? Since this appears to be a major source, why hasn't the NRA used it's muscle to convince all primer manufacturers to go lead-free? Drinking at the range is indicated as a major culprit for lead poisoning but the heat in summer in Australia (as in Arizona) is punishing and if water is not consumed regularly there is a definate risk of de-hydration. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to reduce this risk (Phil, jump in here anytime)? Would the sports bottles with the plastic straws be of help?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I shoot three days (two days, one night) at the range--hundreds (!) of rounds per week. On league nights we have, on the average, 30 people all blasting away, eating range-provided snacks (I've seen NO one--myself included--running to wash hands between stages when the goodies are served!), and what I wash out of my NOSE each night after league looks like the road grime I scrape off my windshield every day! However, I also wear a fairly thick layer of facial foundation makeup and facial creams underneath that which may (or may not) protect facial surfaces a bit more than NOT wearing it. I also remove that layer of make-up thoroughly each night anyway--league or no league. Rules at the range dictate FMJ only, so... perhaps that helps a bit. My next quetions are: --How costly is testing...? --What nutritional considerations would mitigate lead toxicity...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 How costly is testing? I do not know, I asked the doc to add it the last time I had blood work done, so it was covered under insurance. My level was 5, but I have only been shooting indoors once a week, and I shoot plated bullets. I reload, and I am careful in transferring tumbler contents to strainer, which kicks up beaucoup dust. So if I had time for a full schedule (it used to be 3 indoor shoots/week, and 2 outdoor / month) and I reloaded for all those, it might be worse. The local indoor range has facilities to wash up, and most people use them, even when food is not involved. At the member (free food!) or potluck events, the management sometimes remind folks to wash before eating. Ditto on Sig Lady's nose experience. I worry more about mouth/nose/eyes than skin. The skin is a powerful organ. Handi-wipes can help on the hands/face. As for hydration, I usually rinse and spit (outdoors, right? ), then drink. Usually there is enough grit in my mustach that it makes sense anyway. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaughn leayme Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 A concern with FMJ ammunition is that most of it has the lead base exposed to the burning gases and I imagine that the lead vapor reduction over total lead is probably minute. Lead free primers and TMC (total metal cased) would seem to be the only way to overcome this problem. Wash up after shooting and before eating or drinking, also change your shirt/take off your jacket as well, since residue is sure to be on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 When I was shooting weekly indoor pinshoots, I had a dedicated range windbreaker and hat in the car. I'd leave them in the car and shower as soon as reasonable after going home. That plus washing up after shooting worked pretty well to keep leading down. It's also a good idea to change your shoes before tracking lead dust all over your home if your indoor range is dusty. I also keep a bottle of handi-wipes in the car to wash my hands and face after shooting at outdoor ranges. As far as I know, nobody is selling lead-free primers for reloading yet. (Edited by shred at 7:36 pm on Mar. 9, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George D Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think Shaughn is right about the lead base of FMJ ammo and about the solution being fully coated projectiles and lead free primers. The Winchester site's FAQ reveals that, while their Winclean Factory ammo has lead-free primers, they do not market them as components and excuse themselves by stating that no other manufacturer does either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaughn leayme Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 If I recall correctly, when they first introduced lead free primers, they found that they needed to be loaded in a certain way to promote reliability and in third party testing the normal methods of reloading available to the public could not accomplish this. So until they figure out the bugs, we probably won't see them available to the public, for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Hmmm... I think I'll wash my hands a little more often... One night during a recent league match one of our team members lost a small screw out of his eyeglasses. Desperate to continue the match, he and a couple of the other guys (I refused to do it) got down and ran their hands over the carpeted floor until they found this tiny screw--which they did. Then they took a look at their fingertips and they looked like pewter. Guess why....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Many years ago I worked in an industry that required that I have my blood tested for lead and other things every year. Before I started shooting at all, I had a 4 ppb level. After 6 months of shooting three times a week (twice at outside matches and once a week indoors) my level went to 45 ppb. Keep in mind all I shot was cast bullets. Once I discovered my lead level was so high, I switched to jacketed bullets and quit shooting indoors. Lead is an issue. It is more of an issue to you have little kids. I have two small kids. I change and shower after reloading or shooting before I hang out with my boys. Get tested and wash like a mad person. Better be safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 I'll admit that I had not thought at all about lead exposure during reloading. I usually only think about it when I shoot at an indoor range. Since my reloading area is in my basement against an outside wall, it wouldn't be a big deal for me to install an exhaust fan. Should I go to the bother of installing an exhaust fan, or just be careful with washing my hands, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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