124 Berry's Target Hollow Point

[Nd2020]

Hello Gents,  I'm shooting a CZ sp-01 shadow and looking for a little help with load data.

 

124 grain berry target hollow point

1.065

3.3 grain titegroup

 

I was a little concerned about how short i have to load this in my gun, any longer than 1.07 it fails the plunk test.  On hogdon's website it says 3.6 grains at 1.15.  I definitely want to be on the cautious side of things.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Nd2020

[Rnlinebacker]

It's not feeding properly at 1.15?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Nd2020]

Sorry wrong wording.  The chamber on my CZ will not allow me to load any longer.  It fails the plunk test any longer than 1.07.

[noylj]

First, you find the COL that works with THAT bullet in YOUR gun and THEN you work up the load. You have done this, so you are doing just fine.

Does Hodgdon show data for THAT specific bullet (I see it listed as a hollow BASE, round NOSE Berry's bullet and NOT a P-HP, so the COL will be longer because the ogive is longer)? All bullets are not the same and they certainly don't all use the same COL.

Even if they had used the exact bullet you have, their COL is only THEIR test COL and you have to find what works in your gun--which you have done.

I don't even LOOK at the published COL as it is meaningless to me.

I use cast lead data for plated bullets. As such, my manuals show start loads from 2.9-3.6gn of TG. Thus, I don't see any real concern, other than I would have started at a lower charge weight and worked up (say, 3.0, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9gn as a work-up group). If you have shot the 3.3gn load, you are fine.

 

For those wondering about determining the COL for your bullet and chamber:

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"

 

Your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or a few mils higher than where the head of an empty case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by noylj

[Hi-Power Jack]

What velocity are you getting from 3.3 gr TG?

[Nd2020]

2 hours ago, noylj said:

First, you find the COL that works with THAT bullet in YOUR gun and THEN you work up the load. You have done this, so you are doing just fine.

Does Hodgdon show data for THAT specific bullet (I see it listed as a hollow BASE, round NOSE Berry's bullet and NOT a P-HP, so the COL will be longer because the ogive is longer)? All bullets are not the same and they certainly don't all use the same COL.

Even if they had used the exact bullet you have, their COL is only THEIR test COL and you have to find what works in your gun--which you have done.

I don't even LOOK at the published COL as it is meaningless to me.

I use cast lead data for plated bullets. As such, my manuals show start loads from 2.9-3.6gn of TG. Thus, I don't see any real concern, other than I would have started at a lower charge weight and worked up (say, 3.0, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9gn as a work-up group). If you have shot the 3.3gn load, you are fine.

 

For those wondering about determining the COL for your bullet and chamber:

 

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"

 

Your COL (Cartridge Overall Length) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood (or a few mils higher than where the head of an empty case aligns with the barrel, as all cases are too short and I prefer to minimize head space). After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop this round in the barrel and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

Thanks for you help, lots of great info.

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

What velocity are you getting from 3.3 gr TG?

Not sure, still need to buy a chronograph.

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Nd2020

[Hi-Power Jack]

Many people think that chronos are:

 

* not really necessary

* very expensive 

 

.................

 

Wrong:

 

1.  They ARE NECESSARY

2.  They cost $70 for a Chrony     

[MemphisMechanic]

Or $100ish for the ProChrono, which is where it's at.

 

(My Chrony would read 50-70% of the time in conditions where the prochrono works flawlessly.)

[Steve RA]

+1 on the ProChrono !

[4n2t0]

At 3.3 grs I'm surprised the 124gr projectile's making it out of the barrel, lol. That's the load weight I use for 147gr plated projectiles. I would have thought that 3.6 - 4.0 grs would have been your load range.

Edited June 10, 2017 by 4n2t0

[Nd2020]

So I tried out 3 grains and 3.3 grains.  The load with 3 grains functioned the gun but the brass barely dribbled out.  At 3.3 grains the brass flew an acceptable distance, everything seemed to function fine.  I will probably 3.5 grains just to see how the accuracy potential would be.  I only have about 50 or so of these left and I probably will not buy them again.  

[krieg74]

Not sure if the thread is still active, but I could use some help

Reloading 9mm 124 gn Barry's hollow point target superior plated rounds.

I have tried oal 1.06 through 1.15 and can not get to feed from magazine, it smacks the feed ramp 99% of the time.

 

When using factory ammo, no problems in either.

 

My wife is a new shooter and recoil sensitive, so want to May a lighter load for her.

 

I have reloaded 30/06 for years and never had a problem, now loading pistol and going crazy. 

 

Pistols used SW Sigma and Sccy CX3

[Hi-Power Jack]

11 hours ago, krieg74 said:

 

I have tried oal 1.06 through 1.15 and can not get to feed from magazine, it smacks the feed ramp 99% of the time.

 

When using factory ammo, no problems in either.

 

My wife is a new shooter and recoil sensitive, so want to May a lighter load for her.

 

 

That's two different problems :   1.  OAL is measured by The Plunk Test - see if you can drop a

                                                               loaded cartridge into your chamber, hear it bottom out (Plunk)

                                                               and still drop out of the chamber when barrel is inverted

 

                                                          2.  smacking the feed ramp might be due to OAL, but you've

                                                               tried a wide range, and doesn't seem to affect it.  Since the

                                                               problem doesn't exist for factory ammo, sounds like it might

                                                               be you need a shorter OAL (can't be longer at 1.15"); or too

                                                               little crimp, or your mag springs need changing ?

 

I'd worry about The Plunk Test, first.   Get those reloads fitting Your Chamber.  Make them just

a little shorter than the longest OAL that passes The Plunk Test.

 

Then, work on the other problem - (BTW, if they pass TPT, the crimp is fine, and you still might

need a shorter OAL to feed properly.)

[Mhbell96]

Hey guys, sorry to revive this thread again, however, I was gifted 500 of these 124gr Target Hollow Point. I was curious if anyone narrowed a load down, I’m looking for a bulk round to put back for plinking. I’m using CCI #500 Small Pistol Primers and Titegroup. Probably going to make a box of 20 or so and do a few different test loads before pumping the rest out at the most accurate load. Anything helps, I’m just looking for a place to start!

[Hi-Power Jack]

Start with The Plunk Test - get your OAL down first.     

[Springfieldxd]

I have a Springfield xd 9 and it is similar to the cz's with needing to load shorter with Hp's and flat points.  Especially Berry's Target hp's and HBFP-TP.  I have both bullets but I don't have any good data yet on the Target HP.  Will be working on that in the spring.  I checked my data for the HBFP-TP which is pretty close to the Target HP.  Sorry Nothing with Titegroup yet.

 

Berry's HBFP-TP 124 gr.

5.2 gr CFE Pistol

OAL 1.050 

1098 fps

 

I did a plunk test with the Berry's Target HP and it just clears the lands at 1.072.  I would probably load them at the same oal as the HBFP-TP @ 1.050 

If you're bullet is just clearing at 1.070 you should reduce that another .015 to .020 so you should be loading at 1.050 to 1.055. 

Your bullets hitting the feed ramp are another issue. If they don't chamber at the proper oal you need to consider a different bullet.