lndshrk Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Had the unpleasant news given after a template was applied to my Chip McCormick POWER 10 mags at the Area 7 Championship that they were not in compliance with USPSA size measurement rules. These are what have been recommended by many other more experienced IPSC shooters. Is Wilson the only other way to go that is rule compliant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 How far off is it? Can you fix it with a little belt-sander action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 What rule ? According to US Appendix D8 - Maximum Magazine Length - No What was the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 What did they say was the problem? For L-10, the rulebook in D8 says "No" for maximum mag length. For limited, D7 says "140mm/170mm when used in single stack guns" for maximum mag length. Using appendix F1 as a guide, I measured a CMC thingy to be about 5.775" or 146.7 mm. That is well within 170! (~6.7") Did someone think that the mag was supposed to be 140 mm? Something does not sound right! Later, Chuck PS: a Wilson measures 6.039" or 153.4 mm. I used them at the 2003 A2 with no problems there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 At the chrono stage, they asked me to produce a magazine that they tried fitting into a metal gauge (template). Because of the rubber on the bottom, with a bullet loaded in the mag, it did not fit within the angles of the template. I was allowed to complete the match with the POWER 10's, but was warned that they were not up to spec. Still not sure exactly what was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I would think you would be at a disadvantage if you shot Limited w/ a gun that only holds 10rds. By all means do it, but i just dont see the logic in it. L-10 does not have a max length for its mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rising Sight Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 It doesn't seem like magazine length would make any difference at all in Limited 10. I can't think of any reason why a longer magazine would be an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 At the chrono stage, they asked me to produce a magazine that they tried fitting into a metal gauge (template). Because of the rubber on the bottom, with a bullet loaded in the mag, it did not fit within the angles of the template. I was allowed to complete the match with the POWER 10's, but was warned that they were not up to spec. Still not sure exactly what was wrong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I bet the template was a 140mm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I would think you would be at a disadvantage if you shot Limited w/ a gun that only holds 10rds. By all means do it, but i just dont see the logic in it.L-10 does not have a max length for its mags. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't mean to shoot limited. I just pointed out that only limited had a length limit for single-stack mags which is 170. Later, PS: Robbie would still probably win, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I used those same mags to shoot limited 10 last year at Area 7. It was definitely a mistake. It was really hot in the chrono area, I can understand the lapse. The concept of "Limited 10" pretty much takes care of any conceivable advantage longer mags may have, beyond being easier to seat with the use of a magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 What totally confused me was that I believed there was a mag length limit for Limited, but not for Limited 10 Division - This is from the rulebook: US APPENDIX D8 Limited 10 Division Special conditions: 16. Any complete handgun or components produced by a factory and available to the general public for one year and 500 produced. Prototypes specifically not allowed. 17. Only porting of barrels is prohibited. Slides may be ported. 18. External modifications such as weights, or devices to control or reduce recoil are specifically not allowed, such as but not limited to, thumb rest, extended slide stops, etc. 19. Internal modifications to improve accuracy, reliability and function are allowed. E.g. spherical bushings, Acc-U-Rails, replacement barrels provided the barrel length is the same as original factory standard. 1 Minimum power factor for Major 165 2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125 3 Minimum bullet weight No 4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”) 5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major 10mm (0.40”) 6 Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix F2) No 7 Maximum handgun size No 8 Maximum magazine length No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 lndshark, The person who told you this was completely wrong. The only limit is the # of rounds loaded in the mag when the beep goes off. Let's give him the benifit of the doubt here and say he was confused. If he was someone I know, I'd be a bit more critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 There is no maximum magazine length for Limited 10. You can only have 10 rounds loaded in the magazine after the start signal, so it doesn't matter whether it's 140, 170, or 250 mm long. 10 is 10. And, it doesn't matter whether it's single stack or double stack. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Must have been the heat & humidity. Otherwise, a great match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Also, mags are not checked in the guage with a round in them. Someone was high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Also, mags are not checked in the guage with a round in them. Someone was high. I hope they (chrono-man and his assistant) are O.K. Maybe they had inhaled too much on the first 2 days and by the time you rolled in they were cooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Forgot one little thing, they seemed nice enough after they chronoed my Winchester White Box 185 .45 at minor out of my Kimber Compact . . . that was my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryDGeek Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 My CMC 10-round magazines fit nicely into the 140mm side of an EGW mag template. Either somebody is either jerking you around, or they do NOT understand the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Just about ready to put this whole thing behind me. I think it was a total mistake as they showed me the fit with a round in the mag, pretty strange. The whole match was a terrific learning experience, and and amazing experience also. What I learned . . . make sure to chrono my ammo in the gun I'm actually going to shoot in the match, and have a rule book handy to demonstrate that mag length doesn't matter in Limited 10. GOT IT! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxD Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Forgot one little thing, they seemed nice enough after they chronoed my Winchester White Box 185 .45 at minor out of my Kimber Compact . . . that was my fault. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you could have them shoot your ammo through a longer barrel gun if it didn't make major in your compact. At least that is how it was 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I don't think that allowance is made any more: "5.6.3.1 Ammunition must be tested using the competitor's handgun." The later sections of 5.6.3 that describe your options when ammo doesn't make declared PF don't include using guns with longer barrel length's. HTH, ...Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandankenpo Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 they don,t understand the rules, they just made a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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