MALiberty79ks Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Using my XL650 and a set of steel Dillon 223 dies. I find that I cannot get consistently correctly re-sized brass that passes my Lyman gauge. 10% failure rate from once fired American Eagle brass. 5% from Hornady brass. I am trimming after I re-size/de-cap. At first I could see that the neck was only getting crimped about half way to the shoulder, which corresponded with the seating failure depth in the gauge, which I did confirm is clean. I re-set the FL die to actually touch the shell plate and still had failures, although it was reduced by half to roughly 1-2 fails out of 15. The neck then showed a full sizing. I turned the FL die another 1/3 turn down, and tried 30. Almost 100% passed, but the die actually contacts the shell plate with about an inch of travel left in the handle. I think this puts too much stress on the press and I wonder if I'm doing something else wrong. Any advice from the previous graduates of BEginners University of Hard Knocks and Handouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A4ME Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Does it chamber in the rifle? I have an AR15 that had chambering issues when new (the other 7 or 8 worked great, but the newest one had a very tight chamber). The Lee dies were the worst (for failure to close the bolt), the Pacific/Hornady dies were a little better. I pulled out the new RCBS X dies (that were a Christmas present from my wife that I'd not yet used) and they gave me brass better than either of the other brands of dies. One other thought. If you lube the inside of the case neck, does it make a difference in your pass rate in the Lyman case ga? Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MALiberty79ks Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 I was having issues chambering the brass, but have found that since I started sizing with the die touching the plate just before top-dead-center, the brass passes the chamber gauge fine. It was late last night before I finished the brass, so Ill check the cambering this afternoon. If it chambers, I will load up a few and go "chootem" to make sure of function. Will update soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideOpenThrottle Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I used RCBS dies originally in my XL650, all the rounds passed the Dillon Case gauge, but one of my ARs would still have issues with the ammo. I cam-over with the RCBS die, but it seemed like a lot of stress on the press. It worked fine when I would size with the Rockchucker. I then converted to the Dillon Steel dies in the XL650, and have a very slight Cam-over, and haven't had a problem since. The cam-over on the 650 is very slight, but does bottom the shell holder on the bottom of the die. There is no more travel of the handle using a cam-over method. HTH BRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 For use in semiautomatic firearms, we suggest adjusting the size die so that a sized, lube-free case drops flush with the lower step of a headspace gage. This puts it an minimum headspace. Typically, you run the die down until it contacts the shellplate, then go 1/8-1/4 turn further down. Always tighten die lock rings with a case in the die, as this centers the die in the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD1 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I load for many .223/5.56 guns, bolt and auto. I too, had bumps along the way. I solved all by learning: 1. Dillon's are only head space gauges, as are most other brands. Lyman ammo checkers, Sheridan Engineering (I really like their cut out gauge as it lets me really identify a problem), EGW, & ShockBottle are case gauges. Get one or all. Understand that the specifications have tolerances. Thus some dies just barely make to the loose end of them, others to the tight end. Measure some factory boxed ammo and you will be surprised at what you will see and learn. 2. After measuring several die makers sizing dies, I found that for .223/5.56 small base dies from RCBS actually were the real deal. Because brass springs back about .001, I process my once fired brass with small base sizing die after trimming the cases. I also size them one more time when I load the ammo and I do use a crimp die as well. I have since loaded many tens of thousands of rounds of .223/5.55 without any more chambering problems. I hope I have been clear and this helps. P.S. - I also do this to new brass as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MALiberty79ks Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Have not been able to go check operation due to local weather, but hope to soon. In the mean time, I am going to swap back over to some straight case loading to make some food for my new 45. Thanks to all who have commented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MALiberty79ks Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 If I have a case sized, then trimmed to length which still will not pass the gauge because of headspace, should I just throw it away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 If the case is headspaced to below minimum, then yes, throw it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 0:34 PM, dillon said: For use in semiautomatic firearms, we suggest adjusting the size die so that a sized, lube-free case drops flush with the lower step of a headspace gage. This puts it an minimum headspace. Typically, you run the die down until it contacts the shellplate, then go 1/8-1/4 turn further down. Always tighten die lock rings with a case in the die, as this centers the die in the threads. This. The press has to cam over center to properly size the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 1:41 PM, MALiberty79ks said: Have not been able to go check operation due to local weather, but hope to soon. In the mean time, I am going to swap back over to some straight case loading to make some food for my new 45. Thanks to all who have commented. If it ain't raining it ain't good training. As we used to say in the Infantry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPD7119 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 When you screw your die in put a piece of paper between the die and the shell plate. Screw the die in until you cant pull the paper out. Then back it out a little bit. That's what i did and have had no issues with casings passing a case gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MALiberty79ks Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 A friend that reloads told me that I would be happier using an RCBS SB 223 FL die, tried it out, wasn't impressed, and switched back to the Dillon dies. Good move. Same results, much better die. IMO the Dillon die is better made, and so far the only thing I'm running into after I re-set the die to cam-over is cases with incorrect head space. Most of what I'm reloading are previously reloaded American Eagle 5.56 brass so I'm learning about trimming and swaging as well. Good times. On 5/22/2017 at 4:19 PM, rustybayonet said: If it ain't raining it ain't good training. As we used to say in the Infantry! I've been out four times in the rain in the last two weeks. Not once did I tell myself it was good training. All four times I turned around and went home. My poor attitude needs adjusting! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimhamilton Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Will using my 550 with small base dies and " cam overing" cause any damage to my press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 hours ago, jimhamilton said: Will using my 550 with small base dies and " cam overing" cause any damage to my press? I broke the frame of my 550 with "cam-over" loading .308 ammo. Dillon made it right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12glocks Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Remember the shell plate floats a little. I adjusted my sizing die like a single stage press, that is screwed in until it touches the shell plate and I had the same problem that you are experiencing. Go up to 1/2 more turn in and you will get than extra sizing need for your rounds to drop in the gauge. Let me see if I can find the video that helped me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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