650 setup question

[jester121]

Trying to carefully set up a new 650, ran into a snag with the powder failsafe rod installation. According to the instructions, the white Shoulder Washer (#18086) is supposed to be up in the hole in the Return Bracket, #13885, as shown here:

However, on mine, the diameter of the white plastic Shoulder Waster is far to large to squeeze into that hole -- no way, no how. I wisely ordered a spare parts kit and checked that one; while it appears to be from a different batch based on the color shade and feel of the material, it also is far too large.

Am I missing something obvious? Planning to call Dillon tomorrow, but thought someone here might have run into this before.

[MemphisMechanic]

Push harder. It's a tight fit when it's new.

 

[MHitchcock]

It takes a lot more force than you would think. I actually googled it when I first got mine because I thought I was going to break something when I first tried. Just push until it goes in

[Sarge]

Push UP from the bottom not in from the side

[jester121]

6 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Push harder. It's a tight fit when it's new.

(that's what she said)

6 hours ago, MHitchcock said:

It takes a lot more force than you would think. I actually googled it when I first got mine because I thought I was going to break something when I first tried. Just push until it goes in

(that's what she said)

16 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Push UP from the bottom not in from the side

(that's what she said)

---------------------

Okay, I'll see what I can do. My usual approach to things is "brute force triumphs over technical know-how" but just this once I was trying to play it smart... and not wreck anything.

Obviously I need a bigger hammer.

[mikeinctown]

That slot is only for the rod to pass through, not the bushing. The bushing goes in from the bottom. If you raise the ram a few inches, the bushing will easily seat below the bracket and when you lower the ram back down, the bushing will usually pop into place. At least that is how it works on my 650.

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, mikeinctown said:

That slot is only for the rod to pass through, not the bushing. The bushing goes in from the bottom. If you raise the ram a few inches, the bushing will easily seat below the bracket and when you lower the ram back down, the bushing will usually pop into place. At least that is how it works on my 650.

Yep. If it is indeed just way too tight, you can spread the bracket apart slightly with a screwdriver.

[IGOTGLOCKED]

Use a rat tail file and just buff the inside of the metal where the bushing is to go till it fits, worked great for me...

[MemphisMechanic]

32 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

Use a rat tail file and just buff the inside of the metal where the bushing is to go till it fits, worked great for me...

Don't do that unless it's necessary. I'm on my second bushing - the outside of the first one wore until it didn't stay in the bracket when you cycled the press, after about 10-15,000 rounds.

They do wear, and a larger hole will accelerate things.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, mikeinctown said:

That slot is only for the rod to pass through, not the bushing. The bushing goes in from the bottom. If you raise the ram a few inches, the bushing will easily seat below the bracket and when you lower the ram back down, the bushing will usually pop into place. At least that is how it works on my 650.

This is the correct method to use. I should have elaborated in my first post.

[IGOTGLOCKED]

14 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

This is the correct method to use. I should have elaborated in my first post.

I apologize as I should have mentioned the source of that recommendation, I was in a hurry to go to an appointment. It is what Dillon instructed me to do on my 650. Saying they admit it was an incorrect fit and their recommendation was to "buff it" with the file it ever so lightly. And also if it wasn't filed it would keep breaking bushings. They then sent me extra bushings for free. For what it is worth this was my experience.

Cheers!

[IGOTGLOCKED]

23 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

This is the correct method to use. I should have elaborated in my first post.

With my scenario if I raised the ram to insert as much of the busing as possible then lowered the ram to seat it, it would break every time. This is what caused me to call Dillon... Perhaps mine was a different set of circumstances...

[jester121]

2 hours ago, mikeinctown said:

That slot is only for the rod to pass through, not the bushing. The bushing goes in from the bottom. If you raise the ram a few inches, the bushing will easily seat below the bracket and when you lower the ram back down, the bushing will usually pop into place. At least that is how it works on my 650.

I'll have to check tonight when I get home, but I don't think the bushing lines up with any part of the frame to where it would get pushed up into the bracket hole using handle force -- see my photo above. The bracket is just floating in mid-air.

I'll call Dillon just to confirm and report back if they have a magical solution.

[NicVerAZ]

This thing needs to be tight anyway. I used a bit of lube on mine and gently pressed with needle nose pliers.

[jester121]

Talked to Dillon, they want me to mic the hole and the washer to see if they got some recent parts of of spec, and then file on the bracket hole a bit to see if I can stuff it in there.

[amada8]

3 hours ago, mikeinctown said:

That slot is only for the rod to pass through, not the bushing. The bushing goes in from the bottom. If you raise the ram a few inches, the bushing will easily seat below the bracket and when you lower the ram back down, the bushing will usually pop into place. At least that is how it works on my 650.

This is what has worked for me since purchase.

[mikeinctown]

2 hours ago, NicVerAZ said:

This thing needs to be tight anyway. I used a bit of lube on mine and gently pressed with needle nose pliers.

It really doesn't need to be tight. Mine almost floats in there. The only thing it is there for is to move the powder bar into the original position when the ram moves all the way down. As the ram goes up, there is no need for this part. As the ram goes down, it pushes against the fat base of that bushing, which pulls the powder bar back into position.

[mikeinctown]

2 hours ago, jester121 said:

I'll have to check tonight when I get home, but I don't think the bushing lines up with any part of the frame to where it would get pushed up into the bracket hole using handle force -- see my photo above. The bracket is just floating in mid-air.

I'll call Dillon just to confirm and report back if they have a magical solution.

The bracket doesn't float. It is attached to the ram which moves up and down. On the upstroke, the case and powder drop operate the powder measure. On the downstroke, the linkage with the bushing pull the two powder hopper bars back into position and ready for the next charge. If you have the wingnut and spring tightened correctly, that bushing will have force applied to it on the bottom of the downstroke and will normally pop right into place. I can take a video of it tonight when I get home and post it up.

[jester121]

Thanks Mike, I'm still too new to Dillonland to be able to picture that in my head, so I'll check it out when I get home. Still wrapping my brain around how all these mysterious blue parts work together....

Thanks for all the help and ideas, everyone. 

[mikeinctown]

I hope this helps a little bit. "basically" lol

 

 

[jester121]

1 hour ago, mikeinctown said:

I hope this helps a little bit. "basically" lol

Helps a ton -- I was basically on the right track (thanks to your help earlier today), but either the parts I got were out of spec or Dillon has changed some tolerances, because that white shoulder washer doesn't just "pop" into the hole from the bottom, and it doesn't float around like yours does -- it took so much force to squeeze up into the metal bracket from the bottom that I was worried about destroying that blue plastic wingnut once the spring compressed, and now that it's in place, the "jaws" of the bracket have a death grip on it.

After that was on there, the rest of the setup went smooth and I was able to crank out a hundred or so rounds pretty easily.

Thanks for taking the time to make the video, Mike. That will be a useful reference for lots of people in the future, I'm sure. 

Quick side note -- I never understood what people were talking about with the "primer ski jump" on the 650. Now I get it. I had a few primers that didn't get decapped (took me a few tries to get my pin adjusted correctly). That design is just pure silliness! Kicking out live primers just because there was nowhere for them to go? Why can't they go around the circle again? The Hornady primer shuttle has no problem sliding back under the tube if there's no shell in station 2... I'm off to research some of the fix/kludge options I've seen referenced in other threads.... can't deal with that.

[RDA]

On 11/29/2016 at 8:57 PM, jester121 said:

Quick side note -- I never understood what people were talking about with the "primer ski jump" on the 650. Now I get it. I had a few primers that didn't get decapped (took me a few tries to get my pin adjusted correctly). That design is just pure silliness! Kicking out live primers just because there was nowhere for them to go? Why can't they go around the circle again? 

I don't think they want the live primer rotating back under the stack of live primers.

[jester121]

The Hornady shuttles back and forth under the stack over and over again, without incident, when there's no empty case to be primed. 

[TDA]

15 hours ago, RDA said:

I don't think they want the live primer rotating back under the stack of live primers.

It lets you know that there was an issue seating a primer so you can address it before you end up with competed rounds with spent primers or without primers.

[jhgtyre]

On the occasions when I have an unseated live primer I grab the primer and put it on my flip tray.  I never let them go down the slide.  Then, at the end of my reloading session, I take any primers I may have left over on my flip tray, manually place them back on the primer seating stem, and prime a new case with them.