Swanny10 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Looking to develop a 223 3gun load. The plan is to shoot a cheap 55 grain fmj for practice and a higher quality 55 for comp. Will be running a 1/7 18 inch white oak SPR barrel with a mid gas system with a low mass BCG and adjustable gas block and a brake. I have access to a variety of powders and bullets. Range brass. Most likely federal primers. But I do have a couple thousand federal bench rest primers if it makes a difference. If the answer is as simple as load them with H335 and go then that's fine. But if anybody has more specific advice for a set up like mine I would love to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaded605 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I would use a slower powder than H335 only because when my gun got dirty it wouldn't cycle as reliably, not enough pressure. (Maybe my gun is just too crappy, lol) H4895 or CFE223 is what I normally use. With an adjustable gas block that may not matter, I don't have one. I would also use cheap 55 gr FMJs for competition too. I don't like spending .25 cents a bullet on targets I can spit on. I do load 69 gr SMKs for stages with long rifle shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny10 Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Thank you, Loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hornady 55 FMJ in bulk are an excellent value, less expensive than "cheap" fmj's. Just keep your eyes open and take advantage of sales. H335 like most ball powders like to be run with a heavier load. I've run 25.5 grains of it with any 55 grain bullet for years. Keeping the bolt carrier lubed keeps the gun running, cleaning maybe twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 CFE or TAC for me with Hornady 55s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconew Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I just switched up to Varmint powder for my competition gun cheap and works good I am using bulk 55gr and 24grs of Varmint powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny10 Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Thanks for the input folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaded605 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 For the record, the Hornady FMJs was what I was referring to by saying "cheap bullets." I know guys who shoot Vmax or ballistic tips religiously and such a waste for 50 yard or shorter targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny10 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 To follow up.... my reloading mentor had a gross of no name 55 fmj on the shelf. Started with 26 gr. Of CFE and worked up to 27.7. Was still only occasionally breaking 3000 fps with no pressure signs in the brass. At 60 yards I was grouping about 1.5 inches. So let's call it 2 MOA. Some (or a lot) of that is me. Shooting off a backpack with a 6x scope doesn't lend itself for precision work (at least not for me). Good enough for practice ammo I guess. I backed off to 26 grains and loaded 500 because I don't see any reason to stress the brass or wear the barrel when I am simply working on fundamentals. Still bothers me cause I know this gun will shoot 1 hole at 100 with heavy SMKs and Reloader 15. (Yeah yeah, I know, that's a whole different situation. lol) I'll try some hornady 55s when these run out. Thanks for the help everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 If your gun will shoot 1 hole at 100yds enter a benchrest competition. 1.5 at 60 yds does not tell you much and thats more like 1.5 at 60 yds. 2" @ 100 yds is 2 moa. If your rifle really shoots that much better with ??weight smk bullets and RL15 then i woukd try your 55s with that same load. If it really shoots 1.5@60 and no better then i would reserve the 55s for 100 and in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny10 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 24 minutes ago, dauntedfuture said: If your gun will shoot 1 hole at 100yds enter a benchrest competition. 1.5 at 60 yds does not tell you much and thats more like 1.5 at 60 yds. 2" @ 100 yds is 2 moa. If your rifle really shoots that much better with ??weight smk bullets and RL15 then i woukd try your 55s with that same load. If it really shoots 1.5@60 and no better then i would reserve the 55s for 100 and in. Not trying to be overly sensitive but are you implying that the rifle is not capable of shooting one hole at a 100? Also, you confused me with the statement "1.5 at 60 yards does not tell you much and that's more like 1.5 at 60". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Most ARs are not capable of benchrest accuracy, the ones that are, are few and far between. Years ago there was an article in precision shooting about a guy that took his AR to a benchrest match and actually did well...with one group out of the rifle. The proof is in the pudding so they say and a group at one range is exactly that, a group at that range. A rifle that will shoot 1" at 100 yds is not a rifle that will shoot 10" at 1000; in theory yes its possible....in reality not likely.... If your rifle shoots well with 77 SMKs use them for LR and try some nosler 77s for short range, I suspect that the noslers will shoot better then 2 MOA if your rifle will shoot 1/2" or better with 5 shots at 100 yds with the sierras. Nosler 77s in bulk are not much more then Hornady 55's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaded605 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 And there are so many variables to accuracy it will make your head spin if you are just starting out. Not only the gun, but the rest, as you mentioned. When checking groups I like to use sandbags and make the rifle totally stable so that all I am really doing is pulling the trigger. I also use a bag for the stock to stabilize it. Were you shooting with a scope or irons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxerglocker Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) On 10/17/2016 at 5:45 PM, Swanny10 said: Not trying to be overly sensitive but are you implying that the rifle is not capable of shooting one hole at a 100? Also, you confused me with the statement "1.5 at 60 yards does not tell you much and that's more like 1.5 at 60". What he is saying is if you do the math. 1.5" AT 60 YARDS... Isn't even close to you guesstimate that you have a 2 MOA gun/load. It's more like 3 MOA. I personally wouldn't bother moving forward with load development if I could not get a load to group inside 1 inch at 60 yards. I've never have that issue though cause I always make time to access a 50/100/200 yards range. Provided you rifle is capable, using a 1-6 isn't a problem for shooting gun load groups if you use the appropriate target (2 inch shoot n-c) and either bag or temporarily attach a bipod to your gun. CFE223 gives it's best accuracy and carbon fouling properties at 27g or greater. Personally, if you wanted to use a low charge that gives good accuracy pick a different powder, for example 24.5g TAC with a 55 Horandy FMJBT would likely be pretty good in your gun based on what you say it can do with 77smks/RL15. Edited October 26, 2016 by Boxerglocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybot Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 H4198 at 19-20 grains. It is a fast power so you get good muzzle velocities with low recoil and good economy. I have loaded 335 at 21 grains, I don't get near the velocity or accuracy with this load-- about 2-3 MOA WITH 335 vs 1-1.5 MOA with 4198. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I load everything with 24.2 tac that way I don't have to mess with the measurer. Everything from 55's to 82's shoot well enough. I have not tried as light as 40's but its in the agenda for the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpnav Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Another vote for TAC...or RL15. Of course, with 55gr bullets at 100yds, H335 is very hard to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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