3.3 Grain Vhitavourri 9mm

[jkushner1]

I NEED FEEDBACK:

I am going to load some vv 310 for a 4.7" bbl production gun (CZ 85 Combat).

I read on BE.com that I should come in right around 126pf with this load:

Powder: v v 310

Bullet: 147 grain Hornady RN - fully encapsulated

OAL: 1.060"

FPS: 858 fps

PF: 126 +/-

I have someone load for me locally, I just pick the recipe, they load (no time currently)

DOES ANYONE THINK THIS CHARGE WILL BE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THEN NOTED:

Thanks

Jkushner1

[Carlos]

THAT load will liekly BLOW UP YOUR GUN.

The OAL that you listed above is WAY, WAY TOO SHORT.

THe correct OAL is for this load is between 1.155" and 1.160" (I think you had a mis-print in your post but its very important with load data to correct that error before anyone uses the data & harms themselves, others, or their gun).

Also, you only need 3.2 grns of N310 & a Jacketed 147 in a CZ 75B or 85B/Combat. You are right on the edge with 3.2 so please do not attempt 3.3 grns.

Even at 1.160", th load listed has been predicted to generate around 42,000 PSI. That pressure is in the realm of +P+ (or in other words, it is BEYOND all approved SAAMI specifications as to what they consider safe for 9mm). Use with extreme caution & at your own risk.

It sounds to me like you would be better off sticking with a book load like 3.3 grns of Titegroup and a 147 jacketed bullet. Cheaper too. Regards,

D.C. Johnson

[TRG65]

Having someone else load VV310 in 9mm is asking for problems. Do your friend a favor and give him a waiver that you realize what you are asking and are not going to hold your friend responsible when a case head ruptures.

Take Carlos's advice and use Titegroup, or if you want to use VV use 320 or 330.

A 147 hornady RN/ENC which is a bullet in Quickload's bullet data base, using 3.3 grains of VV310 and an OAL of 1.155 significantly longer than what you are specifing

yields

53816 psi

SAAMI max is 34000

You are asking for a load that is 20,000 psi over max.

USE A DIFFERENT POWDER!

by the way using the oal you specified

yields

136252 psi

this is also a 61% compressed load.

[jkushner1]

Thanks Guys - I'm trying to make Minor 125PF and not much more (Dont want to exceed 130PF). I knew something was up after reading a couple other posts on BE.com. So I understand, std. OAL for a 9mm 147 gr bullet is 1.155" and 1.160". Calros/DC, I need to make minor but dont want to go Above PF 130. I am going back to Tite Group, which I/he loaded at 3.2 grains 1.150" on my last batch which I never had a chance to Chrono, but the load was light. Please provide advice as to how many Grains Tite Group and what OAL is should use with 147 grain hornady RN/ENC. Thanks guys, you may have saved my gun, my hand or my eyes. Can I make minor by 3-4 PF with 3.1 grain TG ?

[Duane Thomas]

Even at 1.160", th load listed has been predicted to generate around 42,000 PSI. That pressure is in the realm of +P+ (or in other words, it is BEYOND all approved SAAMI specifications as to what they consider safe for 9mm).

SAAMI max is 34000

SAAMI spec for standard pressure 9mm is 35,000 psi max.

For 9mm +P it's 38,500 psi.

There's no +P+ standard, psi-wise, that's just a way of saying the pressures exceed +P.

NATO pressure ceiling is 42,000 psi.

I switched from N310 to N320 after learning the pressure specs for a 130 pf 147/N310 load. Brrrrrrrr.

[Jake Di Vita]

I'd love to see what SAAMI would say about my 9 Major load.

[Kevin Kline]

Carlos,

You recommend 3.3grs TG, 147gr jacketed, 1.155 OAL in 9mm load. About what velocity are you getting and out of what gun?

Thanks,

[Norm Lee]

3.1- gr. VV N 310 OAL= 1.120"

147.00 gr. Precision TC Bullet

Velocity power factor

950.00 139.65

948.00 139.36

940.00 138.18

937.00 137.74

937.00 137.74

953.00 140.09

949.00 139.50

946.00 139.06

967.00 142.15

970.00 142.59

Total 9497.00

Mean 949.70 139.61

Standard deviation 11.33

This from my BHP

Cheers,

Norm

[jkushner1]

I'm going back to TG at 3.2 grains, OAL 1.155" behind a Hornady 147 gr RN/ENC - QUESTION:

Do you think 3.1 grains TG all other variables the same will make 125 PF ???

Thanks jkushner1

[Nik Habicht]

I'm going back to TG at 3.2 grains, OAL 1.155" behind a Hornady 147 gr RN/ENC - QUESTION:

Do you think 3.1 grains TG all other variables the same will make 125 PF ???

Thanks jkushner1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Buy or borrow a chrono. What others think doesn't matter --- you need to know what it will do out of your gun.....

[Flexmoney]

jkushner1,

Just what are you trying to accomplish with this < 130pf load?

[gm iprod]

Ditto Flex.

[Thomas Moore]

i use 3.3 grns of n310 with 147 gr cmj montana gold loaded out to 1.160 and have no signs of pressure. in fact that load just won me high overall at the last local idpa match by 10 seconds.

n310 is a sweet load also used with 200gr projectiles in the 40 s&w caliber.

[Jake Di Vita]

Tom,

The load won the match for you?

Might be good to rephrase that one.

[driver8M3]

i use 3.3 grns of n310 with 147 gr cmj montana gold loaded out to 1.160

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what gun are you using? what is the pf?

[Clay1]

Having never loaded V V before and reading this post and another on N310 and very high pressures why would you load V V instead of something like Tite-Group?

Can someone explain to me why pressures rise dramatically when the OAL of the round is reduced? Is it because you compress the load? In rifle reloading if your OAL is too long so that the bullet touches the lands the pressures go through the roof to dangerous levels so in rifle I am more concerned with too long and OAL for pressures and feeding reliability. In handguns the first thing that comes to mind is compressing the load. An explaination would be wonderful - thanks.

Rick

[jkushner1]

Nik: The sad part is I do have a Chrono, I never took it out of the box and I keep it in my car. I bought some Corbon Performance Match .40sw (too expensive) because it only makes 131 PF in .40, I am going to shoot it out of my Witness DA at the range to see if soft .40 is really noticably softer than powder puff 9mm (the nine get back on sight faster I'll bet). Dont worry, I will not sway from CZ 85 Combat for Production class, in fact I decided to pass on the SP-01 even though it seems to be provisoinally legal now and ordered a second 85 Combat through Angus - He'll do the trigger and sights when he gets it from CZ-USA then send to me. I am heeding your advice. I won't be leaving the 85 Combat anytime soon. What time do you think will finish Sunday, gettin' all kinds of grief from the pregnant wife (4 weeks left until #2), so I may ask for a shoot thru if your okay with it. Got some big mom/grandmom thing going on.

Flex: As soft a load as possible while still making 125PF for Production Class

[Jake Di Vita]

Ok maybe here is a better question. Exactly what do you think the uber-load will do for you?

I promise you you are WAYYYYYY overestimating the usefulness of a soft load. You would be much better served putting this determination and focus into improving your shooting ability rather than research and trial and error for a little softer load.

And I'm not even going to touch on the safety aspect of an inexperienced reloader finding a load recipe online and trying it.

[shred]

Can someone explain to me why pressures rise dramatically when the OAL of the round is reduced? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Powder (especially fast pistol powder) does a lot of burning long before the bullet gets moving. Less space for it to burn in means less space for all that powder gas to hang out in, which causes pressures to go up, up, up.

[EricW]

Jon,

Because I value you as a friend, customer, and fellow IPSC shooter, I'd like to ask that you not go down this road:

a) Because you might not have a gun to put grip tape on after this

and

3) Because you might not have any fingers left to hold hold the aforementioned gun

Yes, I know some people are getting away with the super-fast mousefart nines. That doesn't make it safe or right. The quest for this "holy grail" is taking its toll. Way too many people are blowing up guns. It's like we've reverted back to the early days of 38 Super safety-wise. And it's not just your safety we're concerned with, it's that of the RO and the other shooters as well. When a gun explodes, it literally has the destructive energy of a hand grenade. There is no benefit that makes the dangers worth screwing around with.

Titegroup or Universal Clays are both safer, and cheaper alternatives.

You have a new baby on the way. I'll just bet you'll want to hold it with all ten fingers intact.

[Kevin Kline]

The difference between TG and VV is very minimal.

[EricW]

The difference between TG and VV is very minimal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think TG is substantially safer. Hodgdon lists a 136PF load as 27,500 cup. I know the units aren't exactly comparable, but that still seems a heck of a lot safer than 42kpsi.

[gm iprod]

jkushner1

Just tell the wife that you have done your part, now it's up to her.

Anyways it's not like she's sick, she is only pregnant.

[Flexmoney]

The difference between TG and VV is very minimal.

I believe the difference in feel is minimal.

The difference in scores is likely not even measurable.

Safety-wise...

[Angus Hobdell]

(mm group size revelation

4.9g of N350

125 g Zero JHP .356

sub 2" 25 yards cz 75

I wa amazed I was used to shooting N310 in the 9mm with a group about 80% bigger