jkushner1 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I NEED FEEDBACK: I am going to load some vv 310 for a 4.7" bbl production gun (CZ 85 Combat). I read on BE.com that I should come in right around 126pf with this load: Powder: v v 310 Bullet: 147 grain Hornady RN - fully encapsulated OAL: 1.060" FPS: 858 fps PF: 126 +/- I have someone load for me locally, I just pick the recipe, they load (no time currently) DOES ANYONE THINK THIS CHARGE WILL BE DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT THEN NOTED: Thanks Jkushner1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 THAT load will liekly BLOW UP YOUR GUN. The OAL that you listed above is WAY, WAY TOO SHORT. THe correct OAL is for this load is between 1.155" and 1.160" (I think you had a mis-print in your post but its very important with load data to correct that error before anyone uses the data & harms themselves, others, or their gun). Also, you only need 3.2 grns of N310 & a Jacketed 147 in a CZ 75B or 85B/Combat. You are right on the edge with 3.2 so please do not attempt 3.3 grns. Even at 1.160", th load listed has been predicted to generate around 42,000 PSI. That pressure is in the realm of +P+ (or in other words, it is BEYOND all approved SAAMI specifications as to what they consider safe for 9mm). Use with extreme caution & at your own risk. It sounds to me like you would be better off sticking with a book load like 3.3 grns of Titegroup and a 147 jacketed bullet. Cheaper too. Regards, D.C. Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Having someone else load VV310 in 9mm is asking for problems. Do your friend a favor and give him a waiver that you realize what you are asking and are not going to hold your friend responsible when a case head ruptures. Take Carlos's advice and use Titegroup, or if you want to use VV use 320 or 330. A 147 hornady RN/ENC which is a bullet in Quickload's bullet data base, using 3.3 grains of VV310 and an OAL of 1.155 significantly longer than what you are specifing yields 53816 psi SAAMI max is 34000 You are asking for a load that is 20,000 psi over max. USE A DIFFERENT POWDER! by the way using the oal you specified yields 136252 psi this is also a 61% compressed load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkushner1 Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Thanks Guys - I'm trying to make Minor 125PF and not much more (Dont want to exceed 130PF). I knew something was up after reading a couple other posts on BE.com. So I understand, std. OAL for a 9mm 147 gr bullet is 1.155" and 1.160". Calros/DC, I need to make minor but dont want to go Above PF 130. I am going back to Tite Group, which I/he loaded at 3.2 grains 1.150" on my last batch which I never had a chance to Chrono, but the load was light. Please provide advice as to how many Grains Tite Group and what OAL is should use with 147 grain hornady RN/ENC. Thanks guys, you may have saved my gun, my hand or my eyes. Can I make minor by 3-4 PF with 3.1 grain TG ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Even at 1.160", th load listed has been predicted to generate around 42,000 PSI. That pressure is in the realm of +P+ (or in other words, it is BEYOND all approved SAAMI specifications as to what they consider safe for 9mm). SAAMI max is 34000 SAAMI spec for standard pressure 9mm is 35,000 psi max. For 9mm +P it's 38,500 psi. There's no +P+ standard, psi-wise, that's just a way of saying the pressures exceed +P. NATO pressure ceiling is 42,000 psi. I switched from N310 to N320 after learning the pressure specs for a 130 pf 147/N310 load. Brrrrrrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'd love to see what SAAMI would say about my 9 Major load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Carlos, You recommend 3.3grs TG, 147gr jacketed, 1.155 OAL in 9mm load. About what velocity are you getting and out of what gun? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Lee Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 3.1- gr. VV N 310 OAL= 1.120" 147.00 gr. Precision TC Bullet Velocity power factor 950.00 139.65 948.00 139.36 940.00 138.18 937.00 137.74 937.00 137.74 953.00 140.09 949.00 139.50 946.00 139.06 967.00 142.15 970.00 142.59 Total 9497.00 Mean 949.70 139.61 Standard deviation 11.33 This from my BHP Cheers, Norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkushner1 Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 I'm going back to TG at 3.2 grains, OAL 1.155" behind a Hornady 147 gr RN/ENC - QUESTION: Do you think 3.1 grains TG all other variables the same will make 125 PF ??? Thanks jkushner1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I'm going back to TG at 3.2 grains, OAL 1.155" behind a Hornady 147 gr RN/ENC - QUESTION:Do you think 3.1 grains TG all other variables the same will make 125 PF ??? Thanks jkushner1 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Buy or borrow a chrono. What others think doesn't matter --- you need to know what it will do out of your gun..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 jkushner1, Just what are you trying to accomplish with this < 130pf load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Ditto Flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 i use 3.3 grns of n310 with 147 gr cmj montana gold loaded out to 1.160 and have no signs of pressure. in fact that load just won me high overall at the last local idpa match by 10 seconds. n310 is a sweet load also used with 200gr projectiles in the 40 s&w caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Tom, The load won the match for you? Might be good to rephrase that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 i use 3.3 grns of n310 with 147 gr cmj montana gold loaded out to 1.160 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what gun are you using? what is the pf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Having never loaded V V before and reading this post and another on N310 and very high pressures why would you load V V instead of something like Tite-Group? Can someone explain to me why pressures rise dramatically when the OAL of the round is reduced? Is it because you compress the load? In rifle reloading if your OAL is too long so that the bullet touches the lands the pressures go through the roof to dangerous levels so in rifle I am more concerned with too long and OAL for pressures and feeding reliability. In handguns the first thing that comes to mind is compressing the load. An explaination would be wonderful - thanks. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkushner1 Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 Nik: The sad part is I do have a Chrono, I never took it out of the box and I keep it in my car. I bought some Corbon Performance Match .40sw (too expensive) because it only makes 131 PF in .40, I am going to shoot it out of my Witness DA at the range to see if soft .40 is really noticably softer than powder puff 9mm (the nine get back on sight faster I'll bet). Dont worry, I will not sway from CZ 85 Combat for Production class, in fact I decided to pass on the SP-01 even though it seems to be provisoinally legal now and ordered a second 85 Combat through Angus - He'll do the trigger and sights when he gets it from CZ-USA then send to me. I am heeding your advice. I won't be leaving the 85 Combat anytime soon. What time do you think will finish Sunday, gettin' all kinds of grief from the pregnant wife (4 weeks left until #2), so I may ask for a shoot thru if your okay with it. Got some big mom/grandmom thing going on. Flex: As soft a load as possible while still making 125PF for Production Class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Ok maybe here is a better question. Exactly what do you think the uber-load will do for you? I promise you you are WAYYYYYY overestimating the usefulness of a soft load. You would be much better served putting this determination and focus into improving your shooting ability rather than research and trial and error for a little softer load. And I'm not even going to touch on the safety aspect of an inexperienced reloader finding a load recipe online and trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Can someone explain to me why pressures rise dramatically when the OAL of the round is reduced? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Powder (especially fast pistol powder) does a lot of burning long before the bullet gets moving. Less space for it to burn in means less space for all that powder gas to hang out in, which causes pressures to go up, up, up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Jon, Because I value you as a friend, customer, and fellow IPSC shooter, I'd like to ask that you not go down this road: a) Because you might not have a gun to put grip tape on after this and 3) Because you might not have any fingers left to hold hold the aforementioned gun Yes, I know some people are getting away with the super-fast mousefart nines. That doesn't make it safe or right. The quest for this "holy grail" is taking its toll. Way too many people are blowing up guns. It's like we've reverted back to the early days of 38 Super safety-wise. And it's not just your safety we're concerned with, it's that of the RO and the other shooters as well. When a gun explodes, it literally has the destructive energy of a hand grenade. There is no benefit that makes the dangers worth screwing around with. Titegroup or Universal Clays are both safer, and cheaper alternatives. You have a new baby on the way. I'll just bet you'll want to hold it with all ten fingers intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 The difference between TG and VV is very minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 The difference between TG and VV is very minimal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think TG is substantially safer. Hodgdon lists a 136PF load as 27,500 cup. I know the units aren't exactly comparable, but that still seems a heck of a lot safer than 42kpsi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 jkushner1 Just tell the wife that you have done your part, now it's up to her. Anyways it's not like she's sick, she is only pregnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 The difference between TG and VV is very minimal. I believe the difference in feel is minimal. The difference in scores is likely not even measurable. Safety-wise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Hobdell Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 (mm group size revelation 4.9g of N350 125 g Zero JHP .356 sub 2" 25 yards cz 75 I wa amazed I was used to shooting N310 in the 9mm with a group about 80% bigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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