.38 Spl Wc Loads For Pistols Needed

[BSE1911]

Hi there,

have several .38 SPL WC pistols, a Colt National Match Mk III, a SIG-Haemmerli 240 and the S&W Mod. 52-2, which makes me headache.

Up to now I never was able to find a load that worked with the S&W pistol (and hardly any factory ammo). With every of my handguns I hold the 4 inch easily at 25 meters - but with one. With the S&W pistol-ammo-comination there must be something wrong. My gunsmith said, there are no mechanical reasons for the 1.5 x 1.5 ft. groups.

I don't want to complain the pistol, but believe that my handloads must be the fault.

Any advise?

That handloads sometimes can do funny things I just experienced last monday at the range. Have some 4000 Winchester 158gr JSP .357 bullets but in the moment no revolver use for this diet - so I tried some loads for the 9mmLuger with them. 3.9 gr of 3N37 did the job (function, SIG210, backyard). At the range I tried some 20 shots with two different SIG P210-6 (nice group, worked, didn't check speed, yet) and then I shot 10 shots with my Heckler & Koch P7M8 - not even one hit on the 1.5 x 1.5ft target 25 meters infront of me. Shot some factory ammo with the P7 and it delivered as usual. What is wrong with this load-pistol combination? No idea, assume bullet diameter.

This 9mmLuger is only a sidestory. My concern is the S&W Mod 52-2 - as for this I could not find any diet till now.

Thnx

BSE1911

[JohnRodriguez]

The Febuary 2005 issue of Handloader magazine has a article on the S&W 52 and loads that it takes. The issue is actually on the new 952 9mm that is being offered, it has a side article on the older 38 special 52's

Federal does make a load for your gun 148gr gold medal match ammo.

I believe the bullets need to be flat nose wad cutters, no semi wad, the bullet is loaded flush to the case, the only way it would function in your gun.

[JohnRodriguez]

Sorry, it was the December 2004 issue

[R112mercer]

I also have a 52-2. You must use full wadcutters for this gun. Not only are they the only rounds that fit in the mag, the gun is specifically designed for low velocity wadcutter loads. I use Zero's 148 gr. HBWC over 3.2 gr. of W231. You could also try 2.7 gr. of Bullseye or 2.5 gr. of Clays with the same bullet. Make sure to completely seat the bullet all the way into the case so that no lead is exposed, as to do otherwise will cause the rounds to drag in the magazine. 52's tend to have a powder preference, but with any powder and properly produced loads they should keep every round in the ten ring of a b-16 target at 25 yards (about 1 1/2 inches). Am I correct that you were using .357" diameter bullets in a .355" barrel (your Sig 210)? That might be the source for your accuracy problems in your second example.

[BSE1911]

I also have a 52-2.  You must use full wadcutters for this gun.  Not only are they the only rounds that fit in the mag, the gun is specifically designed for low velocity wadcutter loads.  I use Zero's 148 gr. HBWC over 3.2 gr. of W231.  You could also try 2.7 gr. of Bullseye or 2.5 gr. of Clays with the same bullet.  Make sure to completely seat the bullet all the way into the case so that no lead is exposed, as to do otherwise will cause the rounds to drag in the magazine.  52's tend to have a powder preference, but with any powder and properly produced loads they should keep every round in the ten ring of a b-16 target at 25 yards (about 1 1/2 inches).  Am I correct that you were using .357" diameter bullets in a .355" barrel (your Sig 210)?  That might be the source for your accuracy problems in your second example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thnx for your input.

I did use what you call full wadcutters - if you refer to the OAL of the round. I have no feeding problems with the 52-2, but can't get the gun shooting straight.

You are right: I'm using .357 bullets in my SIG210. I have no accuracy problems with that gun. But you are wrong about the diameter of the SIG210-barrel. Take the range-rod Brownells offers and put it into your S&W-revolver, remember the feel, try the same rod in your S&W Mod 52-2 and in a SIG210-barrel. My findings were that if I use the Match-Range-Rod .357 it only fits into the S&W revolver barrel if this is clean, no shot through. With the SIG210 I can shoot 100 rounds and the same rod still fits into the barrel. With my 52-2 the rod does not fit into the barrel at all. So the diameters of the barrels are:

SIG 210 .357 +

S&W revolver .357+/-

S&W 52-2 less than .357

thnx so far

BSE1911

[Cal]

I have three M52 S&W pistols - one is a 52-1, two are 52-2's. The only load I've ever used has been 2.7gr Bullseye over either a 143gr or 148gr wadcutter. Accuracy has been excellent in each pistol. These things hit what you're aiming at so regularly they're almost boring to shoot.

From my experience with this model, I'd have to say that poor accuracy with this load would indicate some mechanical problem with the pistol. A friend of mine is a competitive bullseye shooter and recommended the load as more or less the standard used by M52 shooters.

[gmshtr]

I've had the best results with Atlanta Arms and Ammo's 38 Wadcutter 158gr. I'm getting just under 1 1/4" with it out of my model 15.

Phil

[SRT Driver]

52's are really picky, at least mine was.

3.1 of 231 with a hornady 148 gr HBWC shot well. But it has to be seated flush with the case.

Another one that was really picky...Colt 38 spl wadcutter gun. 3.2 of 231 in that one.

Tried Berry's Plated HBWC's in the 52. Not bad but .2 more and not quite as good accuracy wise but usable.

[vonfatman]

I have been trying to figure out my (new-to-me) 52-2. I had to work up to 3.5gr of Win-231 to get mine to function. 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 did not allow the gun to extract.

At 3.5gr. the gun works flawlessly.

No accuracy issues with my 52.2

But it's not boring to shoot (at least not yet!!)

Bob

[Chuck D]

My 52 (long since in storage) worked best with Hornady swedged HBWC's and 3.2 of WW231. I got groups under an inch and a half at 25 yds (indoor PPC).

The gun was VERY picky regarding bullets. It hated EVERY hard cast WC it was fed...the only bullet that gave good groups was Hornady.

Keep working at it...you'll get there !!!

[R112mercer]

Vonfatman;

3.5 of W231 sounds kind of hot for a M52. Mine works fine with 3.2, but if the chamber isn't clean it will start to fail to extract. I use a .40 cal. brass brush on an electric drill to get it as clean as possible. Also, when shooting one handed if I don't hold it with a very stiff grip and elbow the gun will fail to extract sometimes. This can also happen with a two hand hold. M52's are very finicky, as was stated previously but some other board members. If you don't follow through completely with a one hand hold you can see the bullets key hole in the target at 25 yards from you heeling the gun. Enjoy it, they're great guns.

[vonfatman]

R112mercer,

I will look at the gun again...it's very clean. S&W looked it over a few weeks ago (or FTE issues) and it was reported to be in perfect condition. I will take time to clean it and will copy this post for future reference. Thank you very much.

Bob

[wlktheduk]

I too was bitten with the Model 52 bug some years ago. Reloading for that one was a lesson in paying attention to details.

Brass: use one brand. Check and trim to length, with all the cases trimmed to the same length. Mixing brands caused bullet seating difficulties, with case bulges sometimes happening around the grooves that some brass have mid-way down the case.

Bullets: I was only able to use hollowbase wadcutters (HBWC) but did get good results with Hornady and Zero.

Taper crimp, to about .370, with flush seated bullets.

3.2 grains of WW231 powder worked well, as did Federal small pistol primers.

Once I settled on one type of brass and a consistent crimp, my reloads worked well.

Other (thread drift) problems with the Model 52: cleanliness was a mandatory...more then 150/200 rounds and problems started.

Magazines needed frequent cleaning. (no, I didn't drop them into the sand) Where the flat nose of the bullet seems to drag/make contact with the front inside curve of the magazine during feeding. If there was any dirt/powder residue there, failures to feed soon followed.

[Willbird]

This Range Rod is measuring the MINOR dia of the bbl (lands) ?? differant makers have differant ideas about what size the minor should be, the largest dia however at the bottom of the grooves is what will measure .357 or .355 depending on caliber.

Bill

I also have a 52-2.  You must use full wadcutters for this gun.  Not only are they the only rounds that fit in the mag, the gun is specifically designed for low velocity wadcutter loads.  I use Zero's 148 gr. HBWC over 3.2 gr. of W231.  You could also try 2.7 gr. of Bullseye or 2.5 gr. of Clays with the same bullet.  Make sure to completely seat the bullet all the way into the case so that no lead is exposed, as to do otherwise will cause the rounds to drag in the magazine.  52's tend to have a powder preference, but with any powder and properly produced loads they should keep every round in the ten ring of a b-16 target at 25 yards (about 1 1/2 inches).  Am I correct that you were using .357" diameter bullets in a .355" barrel (your Sig 210)?  That might be the source for your accuracy problems in your second example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thnx for your input.

I did use what you call full wadcutters - if you refer to the OAL of the round. I have no feeding problems with the 52-2, but can't get the gun shooting straight.

You are right: I'm using .357 bullets in my SIG210. I have no accuracy problems with that gun. But you are wrong about the diameter of the SIG210-barrel. Take the range-rod Brownells offers and put it into your S&W-revolver, remember the feel, try the same rod in your S&W Mod 52-2 and in a SIG210-barrel. My findings were that if I use the Match-Range-Rod .357 it only fits into the S&W revolver barrel if this is clean, no shot through. With the SIG210 I can shoot 100 rounds and the same rod still fits into the barrel. With my 52-2 the rod does not fit into the barrel at all. So the diameters of the barrels are:

SIG 210 .357 +

S&W revolver .357+/-

S&W 52-2 less than .357

thnx so far

BSE1911

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Meangun]

Has anyone used green dot in their reloads for these pistols?

I have 2 of the Colts and 4 of the 52's that I have never shot. I'd like to work up some loads using Hornady 148 HBWC's, Federal brass, Winchester Primers and Green Dot Poweder. Any ideas?

[Harmon]

seems like titegroup would work really well here.

my 38s love it

Bullseye is an old favorite.

clays seems like it would lack the accuracy needed for that kind of pistol.

Wadcutters were supposed to be bad about tumbingl, especially if you push them hard.

BTW for a lead bullet you should be using a .358+ bullet. anything smaller and accuracy will probably suffer.

[TonyT]

Hi there,

have several .38 SPL WC pistols, a Colt National Match Mk III, a SIG-Haemmerli 240 and the S&W Mod. 52-2, which makes me headache.

Up to now I never was able to find a load that worked with the S&W pistol (and hardly any factory ammo). With every of my handguns I hold the 4 inch easily at 25 meters - but with one. With the S&W pistol-ammo-comination there must be something wrong. My gunsmith said, there are no mechanical reasons for the 1.5 x 1.5 ft. groups.

I don't want to complain the pistol, but believe that my handloads must be the fault.

Any advise?

That handloads sometimes can do funny things I just experienced last monday at the range. Have some 4000 Winchester 158gr JSP .357 bullets but in the moment no revolver use for this diet - so I tried some loads for the 9mmLuger with them. 3.9 gr of 3N37 did the job (function, SIG210, backyard). At the range I tried some 20 shots with two different SIG P210-6 (nice group, worked, didn't check speed, yet) and then I shot 10 shots with my Heckler & Koch P7M8 - not even one hit on the 1.5 x 1.5ft target 25 meters infront of me. Shot some factory ammo with the P7 and it delivered as usual. What is wrong with this load-pistol combination? No idea, assume bullet diameter.

This 9mmLuger is only a sidestory. My concern is the S&W Mod 52-2 - as for this I could not find any diet till now.

Thnx

BSE1911

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The old reliable 2.7 to 2.8 gr. Bullseye behind the Remington 148 gr. HBWC seated flush and roll crimped has functioned flawlessly in my 52's.

Tony

[RePete]

  You must use full wadcutters for this gun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not altogether true.

A friend of mine picked up some 38 S&W brass and loaded LSWC's to the some OAL as 38Sp, and they functioned fine. He stopped using it because of the lack of availibility of 38 S&W brass in Canada.

RePete.