2" holster and mah holder off the belt question

[Sarge]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

[bret]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

If the holster or magazine doesn't comply, you zero the stage.

[Sarge]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

If the holster or magazine doesn't comply, you zero the stage.

Please post the rule for each of those. I just read the rule book again and can't find them. Thanks!

[bret]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

If the holster or magazine doesn't comply, you zero the stage.

Please post the rule for each of those. I just read the rule book again and can't find them. Thanks!

Contact DNROI, Troy Said it's a Zero for the stage.

If your equipment doesn't comply with the rules, do you think there should be no penalty?

[Sarge]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

If the holster or magazine doesn't comply, you zero the stage.

Please post the rule for each of those. I just read the rule book again and can't find them. Thanks!

Contact DNROI, Troy Said it's a Zero for the stage.

If your equipment doesn't comply with the rules, do you think there should be no penalty?

Bret pointed out a ruling on the gear distance that became effective in December. I wish there was a way to keep abreast of the changes to the rule book.

I have seen countless gear corrections made by RM's with absolutely no penalties issued. I wonder if they are ALL aware of the change?As for magazine length I still can't find that penalty.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Sarge

[bret]

If you break a rule in open you can't get bumped. The rule in question pertains to open as well so you would be shooting for no score

Thanks, it makes sense.

Actually, after reading the rules again, it appears this is one of the few violations that has no penalty. All I can find is that it needs to be fixed once pointed out. Nothing about shooting for no score etc. I'm guessing if you fix it , no harm no foul. If you can't or don't then the RM will have to work something out

If the holster or magazine doesn't comply, you zero the stage.

Please post the rule for each of those. I just read the rule book again and can't find them. Thanks!

Contact DNROI, Troy Said it's a Zero for the stage.

If your equipment doesn't comply with the rules, do you think there should be no penalty?

There probably should be a penalty but there also should be a rule for everyone to go by. If this subject has been discussed with DNROI there should be a reference for all of us to use not just a secret squirrel conversation with one person.

I have seen countless gear corrections made by RM's with absolutely no penalties issued. Same with magazines.

http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=75

What's the penalty for not complying with the distance from belt requirement, or the height to belt requirement?

Answer:

5.2.5 and 5.2.5.2

5.2.5: Where a Division specifies a maximum distance that a competitor's handgun and equipment may extend away from a competitor's belt, the measurement shall be taken in the following manner:

--perpendicular to the top of the belt at the point of attachment to the belt

--from the innermost surface of the belt equipment (against the pants/body) to the closest point of the grip of the handgun and/or any reloading device

--measurements may be made with an official USPSA overlay, using either the width or length of the overlay as appropriate to the Division requirement. See App. D1-D7, #10 for requirements.

5.2.5.2: Any competitor who fails the foregoing test will immediately adjust his holster or equipment to comply with the requirements of the relevant Division. The Range Master may make allowances for variations in these requirements due to anatomical considerations. Some competitors may not be able to fully comply. Any competitor who shoots a course of fire while out of compliance will receive a zero score for that course of fire, unless specifically exempted by the Range Master. If the RO suspects or is notified that a competitor’s equipment is out of compliance for their relevant division, the RO must measure the distances at that time. Penalties will not be retroactive and will be based solely on measurements taken on a particular stage. The RM must be informed of any penalties applied due to non-compliance.

[JAFO]

I was confused about what was on hold and what was released. I went back to a previous thread and read that, although the new distance limits are on hold, the penalty for non-compliance for the current limits went into effect 12/08/2015.

[bret]

If a magazine doesn't comply and is longer than allowed, its a bump to open, if the magazine is longer than 171.25mm in open, they shoot for no score.

The RM should follow and apply the rules and apply them fairly to everyone.

If one RM enforces the rules and another one allows people to slide, how is that a level playing field for all competitors?

There probably should be a penalty but there also should be a rule for everyone to go by. If this subject has been discussed with DNROI there should be a reference for all of us to use not just a secret squirrel conversation with one person.
I have seen countless gear corrections made by RM's with absolutely no penalties issued. Same with magazines.

[Sarge]

I don't see the nag length rule or ruling.

As for RM's being fair. Yes they typically are in a match but not all RM's see things the same as other RM's or may not have the latest ruling on their phone. Hence things get handled differently on occasion from natch to match.

[JAFO]

For magazine length, I would think 6.2.5.1 would be the governing rule:

6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, other-wise the competitor will shoot the match for no score.

With the magazine length (or box dimensions) being listed in the Division's Appendix.

[teros135]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

[bret]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

Heard an open guy went to chrono with a 170, it was too long, he shot for no score, everyone else in open showed up with a 140.

[Sarge]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

Heard an open guy went to chrono with a 170.

First of all that was just dumb on his part.

But my question would be, how did they know he even used it to shoot any stages?

[bret]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

Heard an open guy went to chrono with a 170.

First of all that was just dumb on his part.

But my question would be, how did they know he even used it to shoot any stages?

He used it at Chrono, Chrono is a stage.

[teros135]

I think everybody knows what Sarge meant.

And if you want to get really fussy about language, Sarge was right, he didn't use the 170 to "shoot a stage".

[bret]

I think everybody knows what Sarge meant.

And if you want to get really fussy about language, Sarge was right, he didn't use the 170 to "shoot a stage".

Chrono is a stage, so he did use the 170 to shoot a stage.

Equipment gets checked at chrono.

[teros135]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

Heard an open guy went to chrono with a 170.

First of all that was just dumb on his part.

But my question would be, how did they know he even used it to shoot any stages?

He used it at Chrono, Chrono is a stage.

<snip>

Chrono is a stage, so he did use the 170 to shoot a stage.

Equipment gets checked at chrono.

This is, of course, an exercise in semantics.

So the newer folks don't get confused, you don't actually "shoot a stage" at chrono. You don't shoot there at all.

Chrono is considered an "official stage in the match" (Appendix C2), but it's not one of the regular, point-accumulating Courses of

Fire that you shoot for score. Those are defined in 1.2.1

You don't actually shoot your gun at chrono, the chrono officer does. You do bring your gun and a mag to chrono, and Sarge's point is about the wisdom of bringing a 170 instead of a 140 and handing it to the chrono officer, who then inspects them and shoots the gun through the chrono box.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

[bret]

The magazine was used at Chrono. It was checked at chrono.

Chrono is a stage.

[Sarge]

The magazine was used at Chrono. It was checked at chrono.

Chrono is a stage.

But not used by the shooter

[Gooldylocks]

The last chrono I was at they measured my big stick even though I handed them a 140. I had to go get it out of my bag. Seems like that is the way all chronos should run to me, because otherwise what's the point?

[teros135]

The last chrono I was at they measured my big stick even though I handed them a 140. I had to go get it out of my bag. Seems like that is the way all chronos should run to me, because otherwise what's the point?

Right. That would be the most fair procedure for all. Makes sense, too, as most Open shooters use their 170, often to start a stage.

Most of us have the official mag gauge from EGW, or a friend or the club does, and we can check the mags before leaving for the match and adjust as needed. Just have to remember not to switch base pads, just in case.

[bret]

The magazine was used at Chrono. It was checked at chrono.

Chrono is a stage.

But not used by the shooter

The shooter is responsible for their equipment.

[cnote]

So if you're over length in Open, Open isn't available to you, so you shoot the match for no score.

Heard an open guy went to chrono with a 170.

First of all that was just dumb on his part.

But my question would be, how did they know he even used it to shoot any stages?

He used it at Chrono, Chrono is a stage.

<snip>

Chrono is a stage, so he did use the 170 to shoot a stage.

Equipment gets checked at chrono.

This is, of course, an exercise in semantics.

So the newer folks don't get confused, you don't actually "shoot a stage" at chrono. You don't shoot there at all.

Chrono is considered an "official stage in the match" (Appendix C2), but it's not one of the regular, point-accumulating Courses of

Fire that you shoot for score. Those are defined in 1.2.1

You don't actually shoot your gun at chrono, the chrono officer does. You do bring your gun and a mag to chrono, and Sarge's point is about the wisdom of bringing a 170 instead of a 140 and handing it to the chrono officer, who then inspects them and shoots the gun through the chrono box.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...

Chrono is a stage, although i completely understand what is being said here. If you draw your firearm prior to the RO/ chronoman giving you the command, you DQ.

[teros135]

Chrono is a stage, although i completely understand what is being said here. If you draw your firearm prior to the RO/ chronoman giving you the command, you DQ.

I'm guessing that's why they designated it as a "stage". You have to handle the gun in order to give it to the chrono officer and retrieve and holster it. You don't shoot it, of course, he does, and hopefully doesn't trash the chrono. (I've seen some interesting tricks to help the chrono guy aim, including putting a statue of Darth Vader underneath the aiming hole - "don't hit Darth!")

[Racinready300ex]

My glock almost hit Vader at area 8 last year.