Miranda Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 hi ... being polite runs both ways if you had left the post at "please don't get that started, again" I would agree your that your point that what you shoot at some one is a pretty contentious point. and we should avoid it. then you call the advice... theory... mylawyersays... and yadayada. the advice from Mas is well considered, Juries are not renown for being smart where I live. Learn to use the revolver, practice reloading it and assume a bear is the most likely problem you will ever face. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelie66 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 OK, didn't mean to offend. I just believe part of self defense is knowing what to prepare for legally as well. I pulled this thread off topic anyway, sorry for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varminter22 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 As for "no reloads for self defense", that "advice" has been around for years. But when called out on it, NO ONE (that I've ever read) has EVER pointed to a single case wherein using reloaded/handloaded ammunition was held against a righteous defendant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelie66 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Fair enough, we are considered "gun nuts" by a lot of the population now. The original point was be damn sure your ducks are in a row mentally as as well as the choice of a weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 oooof. K, the request was made that we drop the discussion because this is a contentious issue and has little to do with competition and our sport. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 As for "no reloads for self defense", that "advice" has been around for years. But when called out on it, NO ONE (that I've ever read) has EVER pointed to a single case wherein using reloaded/handloaded ammunition was held against a righteous defendant. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/reference-how-forum/81488-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/reference-how-forum/81488-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court.html Thanks Miranda. As a practicing trial attorney whose practice is wholly committed to defending BS civil suits, I wholeheartedly agree with Massad Ayoob's take on this issue. Ignore our advice if you wish, but you do so at your own peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Revolvers are about useless, seriously.... Long guns are great, but its kinda hard to hold a cell phone in one hand and your AR or Shotgun in the other. Get a handgun with a mounted light because most bad stuff happens at night, and nearly all situations demand you have a phone in your hand. Imagine trying to hold someone at gunpoint for 3 or 4 minutes... seriously try it at the range one day, just holding your phone to your ear and the gun on target while your buddy runs the timer. My recommendation, a striker fire gun, without any manual safety devices, a mounted light of quality make that does not have a strobe or other useless mode, chambered in the biggest cartridge you can handle firing one handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Revolvers are about useless, seriously.... Long guns are great, but its kinda hard to hold a cell phone in one hand and your AR or Shotgun in the other. Get a handgun with a mounted light because most bad stuff happens at night, and nearly all situations demand you have a phone in your hand. Imagine trying to hold someone at gunpoint for 3 or 4 minutes... seriously try it at the range one day, just holding your phone to your ear and the gun on target while your buddy runs the timer. My recommendation, a striker fire gun, without any manual safety devices, a mounted light of quality make that does not have a strobe or other useless mode, chambered in the biggest cartridge you can handle firing one handed. I am a semi auto guy but revolvers are not useless. I think they are not as good of a choice overall but they are still viable. Yes weapon mounted lights are good. But its your home you can turn on the light you should not be out trying to play a one man or woman swat team clearing your own house unless you have to get to your kids. Holding up in your bedroom with the gun pointed towards the door is the best option while you call 911 and only shoot if they come into the room. Also a manual safety can be a very good thing lots of officers have been saved after being disarmed because their gun had a manual safety. You're making a lot of absolute statements that are just your opinion. Nothing wrong with having an opinion but don't push it off as fact. As to the caliber even the FBI is going back to 9mm. I prefer 9mm personally but won't fault other choices if you can shoot them well. I have personally carried 9mm, 40, 45, 357 sig and 10mm in my 16 year career so far and I have settled on the 9mm as the best overall semi auto defense round. It does not matter as much what you hit them with but rather where you hit them. Shot placement wins gun fights not caliber debates. Pat Edited April 21, 2016 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) M1 Carbine - super easy manual of arms, easy to work bolt/clear malfunctions, no real physical stature requried to operate. It's basically a youth-sized 15-30 round rifle that can put out a 110 grain bullet at 2000 fps with minimal recoil. Soft point and defense loads are available. Edit - small size and wood stock make it look almost toy-like as opposed to an Evil Black Gun... Edited April 21, 2016 by Beastly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/reference-how-forum/81488-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court.html Thanks Miranda. As a practicing trial attorney whose practice is wholly committed to defending BS civil suits, I wholeheartedly agree with Massad Ayoob's take on this issue. Ignore our advice if you wish, but you do so at your own peril. Plaintiff trial lawyer here since 1988. A, uh, few criminal cases thrown in. I have never encountered a justifiable use of deadly force that was later determined to be an improper use of deadly force because of the user's choice of weapon or ammo. If there is such a case I would enjoy reading it. When a thug crawls through grandma's bedroom window at 2:30 in the morning with rope, tape and a blade...and she places a .38 slug where it is needed, the case will not, in my opinion, turn on her use of the hand-loaded ammo her husband made for her. With all of that said, is there a downside to using factory loads? None. Use of factory loads is the safe advice to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Bruce, in what state do you reside and practice law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Bruce, ever find yourself in complete agreement with some one.... and also think yeah but I am not going to make that bet? It is a heads-up that any one who considers a firearm as an aid to self defense should know. For when you chose to defend yourself and others... the next thing you will face is a legal system... full of ordinary people... who have had many experiences and may not be sympathetic. lets all hope the Bears are the only problem we ever face in terms of self defense. Here in the fine City of B-more.... it is one of my deepest prayers. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 lets all hope the Bears are the only problem we ever face in terms of self defense. Here in the fine City of B-more.... it is one of my deepest prayers. I've been face to face with a bear in my living room. It's the reason I now keep a loaded gun about the house. It took a few scotches to get to sleep that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 !!! you gave good Scotch to a bear!?!! ... well if it works.... I hear they are surprisingly large at the dinner table.... I am glad you are ok. I'll have a shot of tequila. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 It was a yearling, I chased it out of the house swearing like a sailor the whole way. My hands started shaking after I was done, just as I sat back down on the sofa. Scotch whisky helps with that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 That's why it helps to drink whiskey between stages at a match. Keeps your hands from shaking. Pro tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 That's why it helps to drink whiskey between stages at a match. Keeps your hands from shaking. Pro tip. We need a like button at Benos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Time to remind everybody that discussion of legal issues and gun control issues are political and therefor against Forum guidelines... Restricted ContentPolitics Policy and political discussions or debates of any kind - even if you consider your opinions to be "facts" - are not welcome anywhere in the forum.Specifically including (but not limited to):• USPSA vs IPSC• IPSC vs IDPA• STI vs SVI• Limited 10 vs Limited Division• This Division vs That Division• This Government vs That Government• Gun Control IssuesThis is not a free speech issue. As a privately funded and collectively ran "information exchange," we have found that the emotional nature of political discussions weakens the informative impact of the Forum. "K, the request was made that we drop the discussion because this is a contentious issue and has little to do with competition and our sport." Well said Miranda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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