cking Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 .05 would give cyclic rate around 1200 rpm, which above what and open bolt gun like the Mac 10 can shoot, the 1911 is a locked breach gun. So my guess the cyclic rate to be between 400/600 which delivers a time of .1 to .125. So grand master out there how fast can you shoot doubles. two fastest common machine guns were MAC10 and MG42. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I've seen .08s shot. I've seen .05-.06 when a gun went full auto. These were both race guns, BTW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I heard somewhere that a 1911 cycles in .06. I've seen .09 splits from both Open and Limited blasters. Many timers won't record a split faster than that.. we had a gun doubling that last weekend and couldn't get a reading on the split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 <drift-ish> My PACT Mk IV didn't have a problem picking up the quick splits (at least outdoors...). For whatever that's worth - maybe I had the "bonus" timer or something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 .05 would give cyclic rate around 1200 rpm, which above what and open bolt gun like the Mac 10 can shoot, the 1911 is a locked breach gun. So my guess the cyclic rate to be between 400/600 which delivers a time of .1 to .125. So grand master out there how fast can you shoot doubles. two fastest common machine guns were MAC10 and MG42. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm only an M but I've had plently of .1-.11's with my open gun before I realized it was a silly thing to try to do, fast splits that is. I've heard enough guns "double" and they are a lot faster than a .1 split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm a C shooter. My springfield 1911 runs at 2.5 lbs with a Koenig hammer. Very crisp not a bit of creep. I ran this gun stock for over a year with a 5.5lb pull. My follow throughs are much better with the lighter trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I agree with shred, .06 is what I've heard. It's for sure faster than .1 or .125. If you've ever seen any slow motion video the 1911 is pretty much done with the cycle and back into battery at the top or highest arc of recoil. Much before the sights are ready for a second shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac's were designed to retard the cyclic rate, either with a heavy bolt or spring, etc. Rarely do small arms designers strive for the highest cyclical rate, as the fastest is rarely the most controllable. Who cares how fast a semi-auto cycles, because it is semi-auto and you aren't going to blaze through a combat load of ammo in 3 seconds. Can't really compare the two. I know a 1911 cycles faster than .12, cause I've see a ton os .10s and .11s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 What got this started, I read that open guns, with comps, when slides were not lightened. That some GM claimed they had to wait for gun. I can't say this happened to me. Then some else responded that, that wasn't possible as the gun cycles in .05. Which lead me to come with a cyclic rate to see if that number seemed correct. The gun I was familiar with the internals on was the MAC 10. A buzz saw. Which thanks to Google was easy to find of around 1100 rpm. The MAC is a fixed firing pin, blow back design, no dampers. Since the 1911 uses the locked barrel and slide to delay ejection for pressure drop. My guess was that its rpm would be much slower. Now from my observation the 38super's with light slides cycle way faster than my old 45acp with 16lb spring. So question remains, could a highly skilled shooter, shoot faster than a old standard 45acp slab side with factory stock spring can cycle. What have your experiences been? From RO alot, I can see the slide cycle on 45, I can't see the slide cycle on a open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Have had .13's with my .45, have had it full auto when I was learning to do triggers and it was ALOT faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Have had .13's with my .45, have had it full auto when I was learning to do triggers and it was ALOT faster <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And more exciting!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 With Open and Limited, I am waiting for the dot/sight to return. The slide is finished cycling way before. I have a very light slide and spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I have recorded a lot of 10's, and I have heard many places that the cycle time for a 1911 is .06-.07. I think it depends on the recoil system being used. It is possible to slow them down a bit, and to speed them up a bit. In another thread, several of us had issues with our guns malfunctioning as if we were outrunning the guns. Two of us changed our Recoilmasters to rods and springs(mine is 14 pounds) and it stopped the issue. I had .10s on the RM and .10s on the rod and spring, so I assume the doubles were faster than that. What I am saying is that some guns may run .09 some of the time, and if you run .09, you can beat it, while others run .07 and nobody can do that that I know of. This is just a theory. On the subject of waiting for the gun to cycle, that may be, I don't know. I am only an A shooter, but I can tell when a gun is fast or slow to an extent. This is most common when changing spring weights, or shooting someone else's ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 cking, You have confused "waiting on the gun" with waiting for the slide to cycle. GM's are not outrunning the slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 My "goto" rate of fire is about 400 rounds per minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I've shot 0.09 and 0.10 splits with my 1911's and that sounds pretty close to a double. I've also heard the 0.06-0.07 cycle time repeated in several places and would expect it to be about right. However I haven't been able to review the timer on any of the times I've seen one go auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 0.06 cyclic rate?! Maaan, gotta update my thinking. I thought they don't cycle any faster than 0.25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Now from my observation the 38super's with light slides cycle way faster than my old 45acp with 16lb spring. So question remains, could a highly skilled shooter, shoot faster than a old standard 45acp slab side with factory stock spring can cycle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If there's something wrong with the feedramp, cycling can be visibly slower. Esp. 45acp with unramped barrels - there are videos of them cycling where everything is inconsistent - ejection, feeding to the top of the mag, feeding into the chamber. A round that touches the slide stop on its way up & forward can really gum things up. Because of back-pressures, I *think* a 38super compgun would cycle quite a bit faster than the average 45 or even 40cal. A lighter slide and lighter slide spring contribute to that. A lighter bullet weight at the same power factor definitely cycles faster in the 40cal guns I've had. Less inertia??? Going with Smitty's take - I don't think you can outrun the slide - unless something is wrong with the gun or ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 A MAC-10 is an open bolt blowback gun. It relies on a heavy bolt to delay extraction. A 1911 has a locked breach, when it fires. as the gun recoils, the locking lugs swing down and unlock the slide. (see the STI screensaver for a full demo) The slide of a 1911 isn't very heavy. I've seen 1911's go full auto and they are much faster than 400-600. Probably twice that rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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