inconsistent OAL with The Blue Bullets on my new Square Deal B

[andyroth]

Just got a Square Deal B (.40 S&W) for my Glock 35.

Got the 250 rnd sample pack from The Blue Bullets (180 gn RNFP).

OAL is varying between about 1.132 and 1.136. I can't seem to get it to the same length consistently.

My question is:

1. Is this a problem? If it goes over 1.135 will something bad happen since it's out of "spec"? I assume a tad under 1.135 is fine since the load data for the powder I'm using (Titegroup) used 1.125" for their load data.

2. Is the most likely culprit inconsistent bullets, inconsistent primer seating depth, or inconsistent press/die? Visually, all of the primers look flush...

[G-ManBart]

That's actually a very reasonable variation. No two bullets are exactly the same, no two cases are exactly the same, and the shell plats has a bit of give in it....add those up and you gat a few thousandths variation. Mixed brass makes it even more noticeable. Measure and weigh some of the bullets and you'll see how much they vary.

[warpspeed]

two things:

First, I wouldn't be too worked up with a 0.004" variation. I 'd be surprised if you took and measured the bullets and found them that close.

Second, the Square Deal seater has 2 different seating stems - TC & SWC. You might try switching to which ever you aren't using and see if that makes thing worse or better.

Me? I'd shoot them and see how they function.

Edited February 28, 2016 by warpspeed

[Hi-Power Jack]

Probably more important is making sure that after you seat the

bullet and "crimp" the round, that you cannot push the bullet

into the case (shorten the OAL) - bullet setback can be a real

problem in .40 major.

[andyroth]

Probably more important is making sure that after you seat the

bullet and "crimp" the round, that you cannot push the bullet

into the case (shorten the OAL) - bullet setback can be a real

problem in .40 major.

How do I test that? I know it was a PITA to pull the bullet with my bullet puller when I checked to make sure the belling / crimp wasn't shaving the coating off.

I loaded 60 rounds of 4.2gn Titegroup for the range tomorrow. Have a chrono coming on Monday to start building some real data.

I'll put a round at the bottom of a mag and not shoot it for a couple of mags and see if the COAL changes.

[RPatton]

Cast bullets usually have a raised area on the base due to the sprue was cut so measuring them doesn't tell you anything useful and .004" should not be of concern.

I found that even though I could not push bullets back into the case by hand if I loaded them in a mag and cycled them through the gun they would be a few thou shorter. If cycled them through the gun a second time they were shorter by a greater margin.

A friend of mine had a problem with random jams that was not fixed for almost a season.

The Root Cause: When he would unload after a stage he would put the last chambered bullet back in a mag. Occasionally that bullet would experience enough setback the second time it hit the feedramp that it would remove enough energy from the slide and cause a jam but it did not happen consistently. At a glance a bullets recovered after a jam would not look like it had caused a problem.

It appears that when you actually crimp a bullet enough to make the case mouth leave a mark on the bullet then hitting the feed ramp may push the bullet deeper into the case by a few thou but the next time it hits the feed ramp the bullet is more easily pushed back into the case since the case mouth is no longer recessed into that ring where it was initially crimped. The "crimp" on a straight walled semi auto pistol case is not to hold the bullet in the case, friction from the brass riding on the bullet does that.

An EGW undersized die fixed his problem much to the relief of his gunsmith who was never able to make the gun jam no matter how much he shot it because he would always run a mag dry and start with a new one.

This was happening with jacketed bullets.

The feedramp angle on a 2011 is much steeper than that of a Glock so the same bullets were not being driven back into the brass in a Glock. I have tried it both ways.

[9x45]

Use the wipe method to check crimp, permanent marker the case and see how much wipes off during crimp (de-bell) and it should only be about .005" Make sure you check OAL with all stations operating. Chamber check your rounds and get to gripping and ripping.

[Hi-Power Jack]

more important is making sure you cannot push the bullet

into the case

How do I test that?

I'll put a round at the bottom of a mag and not shoot it for a couple of mags and see if the COAL changes.

Good idea to run it thru a few times, like you said.

I press the bullet against my reloading bench as hard

as I can - and then measure the OAL for a 2nd time -

see if the OAL has shortened any.

Both are a great idea - you don't want your OAL to

get too short, esp with Major .40.

[TJART]

Are you using mixed head stamp brass?

[andyroth]

Are you using mixed head stamp brass?

Yes

[andyroth]

Thanks everyone.

I shot my first 60 rounds today. Other than 1 misfire they were fantastic.

I think the 1 misfire was that the primer was seated too deeply. I'll be a little gentler next time.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I've never heard of a misfire due to a primer "seated too deep".

May have left a fired primer in during the loading process ...

[andyroth]

Hmm. Doubt it... my Square Deal deprimes on station 1...

I tried firing it a few times thinking it was just a light strike, but it never went off.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[TDA]

It de-primes on 1 and the primer does not fall off of the de-priming pin and gets pulled back partially into the case. Then it moves to the priming station where the old primer is seated by the new primer pushing against it.

Bottom line is you end up with a cartridge with a spent primer in it, which is why it doesn't go bang.

You'll learn to tell when this happens by the feel of the handle on the press...

[andyroth]

It de-primes on 1 and the primer does not fall off of the de-priming pin and gets pulled back partially into the case. Then it moves to the priming station where the old primer is seated by the new primer pushing against it.

Bottom line is you end up with a cartridge with a spent primer in it, which is why it doesn't go bang.

You'll learn to tell when this happens by the feel of the handle on the press...

Gotcha. Thanks for the tip

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[RDA]

It de-primes on 1 and the primer does not fall off of the de-priming pin and gets pulled back partially into the case. Then it moves to the priming station where the old primer is seated by the new primer pushing against it.

Bottom line is you end up with a cartridge with a spent primer in it, which is why it doesn't go bang.

You'll learn to tell when this happens by the feel of the handle on the press...

Gotcha. Thanks for the tip

You can disassemble that round and find out for certain.

[ruleyoutoo1911]

two things:

First, I wouldn't be too worked up with a 0.004" variation. I 'd be surprised if you took and measured the bullets and found them that close.

Second, the Square Deal seater has 2 different seating stems - TC & SWC. You might try switching to which ever you aren't using and see if that makes thing worse or better.

Me? I'd shoot them and see how they function.

This. I have a Square Deal and it is more consistent with some bullets than others, plus there is some case variation. I wouldn't worry too much about a variation of .004 either. As suggested you might want to try a different seating stem

[lcs]

When using a progressive loader, you are going to get variation in the OAL. It is just the way it is. Ten thousandths would mean something is wrong.

The seating die can get dirty pretty quick. Make sure you clean your dies on a regular basis.

[missed it by that much]

Should've bought a Lee

[perttime]

I think it is pretty noticeable on my Square Deal B if anything weird is going on at the priming station. But I tend to take my time and pay attention when I'm around primers and powder.

Mine has never failed to deprime but I suppose it is possible.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Should've bought a Lee

:roflol:

[Hi-Power Jack]

Mine has never failed to deprime but I suppose it is possible.

Glad you haven't had the problem yet, but it is much more than possible -

happens quite a bit. Have to keep an eye out for it.

I check my primers when I reload my mags - make sure the primer is there,

not too tall, and definitely not already dimpled (fired).

[TJART]

Should've bought a Lee

:roflol:

I know more people that have problems with the blue, than the red.

[perttime]

Mine has never failed to deprime but I suppose it is possible.

Glad you haven't had the problem yet, but it is much more than possible -

happens quite a bit. Have to keep an eye out for it.

I check my primers when I reload my mags - make sure the primer is there,

not too tall, and definitely not already dimpled (fired).

Maybe I'm lucky. I haven't kept records and don't load and shoot quite as much as some do. But a pretty good number of rounds have come out of my SDB.

The primer problems that I've encountered have been failures to feed new primers when switching to another caliber. There was a time when I was making do with one primer slide for 3 calibers, and needed to adjust everything when switching. Also, the case needs to be pretty accurately in place at the priming station. At some stage, I decided that it is better to leave the tab off the pin that holds the case in the shell plate.

[RDA]

Should've bought a Lee

:roflol:

I know more people that have problems with the blue, than the red.

Apparently you don't know anyone running red?