need some direction-optimal loads with 3 port comp

[dave33]

I just added a 3 port Springer Precision comp to my CZ P09 and am looking for a little advise on getting the most out of the comp. I will be shooting Bianchi Cup/Action pistol matches which only has a 120PF, and steel challenge matches with no power factor so I dont necessarily need major loads, just optimal for my setup.

I understand using slower burning powders to make more gas but I figure a 3 port comp is only going to do so much anyway, so not sure on how far to go with it. Would really light bullets with lots of gas work better than medium weight bullets and less gas, given what Im working with?

The slowest powder I have on hand is Accurate #7 but have a pretty well stocked store so can get many other powders to work with. Appreciate any insight y'all can provide.

[jcc7x7]

Figure u have a9

Try wsf at the top end and Go from there

[GrumpyOne]

Lightest bullets that you are allowed and the slowest powder.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Lightest bullets and the slowest powder.

+1. What Grump said ^^^

[mro111lland]

Try some 115 grain bullets around a 155 power factor 7.6 grains of hs6 should do gona need that power factor to make the comp work I used the same comp on an xdm open gun did not notice any different until got to a 155 to 170 power dactor

[Garmil]

Your aa#7 and 100 grain works well.

[dave33]

I know HS-6 is pretty popular and maybe autocomp, any others I should be on the lookout for to try out? Thanks for the help.

[Garmil]

I've made open minor loads with hs-6 autocomp and #7. #7 was easily the flattest. For major loads they catch up and are comparable.

[zzt]

Dave, ignore the lightest bullet, slowest powder recommendation. That's (maybe) what you do for 9MM Major, but I know a lot of people shooting 9mm Open use 124gr bullets and HS-6.

You want to make minor loads that are accurate and still work the comp, at least to some degree. It is a balancing act. You can get significant upward recoil reduction using fast powders. I have done just that. The first thing you have to decide is whether you want flat or soft. You can have both, but it takes a lot of work.

Assuming you want flat, there will be a combination of bullet weight, powder type and charge that makes the PF you are looking for and vents almost all of the gas through the ports. If you have so much gas volume that any appreciable amount exits the front, it is going to be hard on the hands. If you use light bullets and a really slow powder, that is exactly what is going to happen in your short barrel. BTW, don't get hung up on low PFs. You may well find that PFs in the 145-155 range work the comp the best. You shouldn't care what the PF is, because you will be going for flat and soft.

I'll also say that dead flat may not be the optimal solution for you. Some muzzle rise is perfectly acceptable to me, as long as the dot doesn't leave the glass and second shot splits are acceptable.

[dave33]

Dave, ignore the lightest bullet, slowest powder recommendation. That's (maybe) what you do for 9MM Major, but I know a lot of people shooting 9mm Open use 124gr bullets and HS-6.

You want to make minor loads that are accurate and still work the comp, at least to some degree. It is a balancing act. You can get significant upward recoil reduction using fast powders. I have done just that. The first thing you have to decide is whether you want flat or soft. You can have both, but it takes a lot of work.

Assuming you want flat, there will be a combination of bullet weight, powder type and charge that makes the PF you are looking for and vents almost all of the gas through the ports. If you have so much gas volume that any appreciable amount exits the front, it is going to be hard on the hands. If you use light bullets and a really slow powder, that is exactly what is going to happen in your short barrel. BTW, don't get hung up on low PFs. You may well find that PFs in the 145-155 range work the comp the best. You shouldn't care what the PF is, because you will be going for flat and soft.

I'll also say that dead flat may not be the optimal solution for you. Some muzzle rise is perfectly acceptable to me, as long as the dot doesn't leave the glass and second shot splits are acceptable.

Im definitely looking for soft and flat but in my mind a little flatter may be better than a little softer. Power factor means nothing for what Im doing at this point so if what I need makes a 125PF or a 160PF thats fine. When shooting Bianchi matches you only have a certain amount of time to shoot your string, but they need to be as accurate as possible so I figure shooting flatter will give me more time to be more deliberate with my aim. Super fast splits are not important right now, I want to use the full allotment of time per string to break the most accurate shot I possibly can.

If you dont mind sharing I would be interested in some of your loads using faster powder, or at least a general range you are loading in. I have at least 18 different powders on hand, most would be considered on the fast to very fast side so if I can use something I already have, that would be great. Thankfully my local powder store is pretty well stocked so I can definitely get my hands on other stuff as well.

Thanks for the advice.

[Hi-Power Jack]

ignore the slowest powder recommendation. I know a lot of people shooting HS-6.

HS6 is one of the slower powders ...

[zzt]

Dave, I use e3 for all my Minor loads using mid-range to heavy bullets in all calibers. It is a fast powder for lighter loads, but seems to act as if a slower powder with heavier loads. If you have some, give it a try with 115gr and 124gr and see how you like it. If you don't have it already, don't buy any because you will not get to really flat with it. What you will get at the mid-level PFs is an accurate, clean, non temperature sensitive, quiet (relatively speaking) load. The dot will track and you will have pretty quick follow up shots.

Since you are going for flatter regardless of the PF that gets you there, I'd start with something in the Green Dot/Unique/Universal range and go from there. I'd stop in the Autocomp/HS-6 range. Forget about N340. It is so temp sensitive it's pathetic. You are also going to have to experiment with recoil springs. The more effectively you get the comp working, the lighter the spring you will need. I don't know if this will help you, but Dr. Nick at Mountain Competition Pistols sells a highly modified Beretta with a comp of his own design. He developed a load using 124gr bullets that he, and others say has little felt recoil. He won't say what the powder is, but at least you know he decided on 124 instead of 115, 135 or 147.

Since you do not care about super fast splits, you don't need dead flat. What you need is the dot back where it belongs by the time you have transitioned to the next target. If you accept that premise, you can get along with a lot lower PF than it will take to work the comp for flatness.

Since you have all those powders available, pick three at the relatively fast, medium and slow ends of the spectrum. Load 10 each to mid-range PF and just shoot them. It will give you a really quick take on recoil impulse and flatness. You can go from there based on your findings.

I'll tell you two stories that may help you a little. I am currently working to develop a Major load for a 40 Open gun with a 3-port comp. Even though I knew better I tried a 135gr bullet ahead of lots of slow powder. It didn't quite make Major, but it shot dead flat. It was also inaccurate and horribly loud. I switched to Autocomp and dialed the load back. I found that at 171PF I got accuracy and relative flatness. I could put 5 shots into a 1" circle at 15 yards.

I knew from previous experience that I'd had better luck with mid-range bullet weights in all calibers, because I won't tolerate hard recoiling, ear splitting loads. So I spent a lot of time using 155gr and 165gr bullets. Yes, I tried 180s just to see, but they were not flat enough. After a couple of tries I found that Autocomp with the 155 loaded to 180PF gave me pretty flat and plenty accurate. It would put five shots into one small hole at 15 yards. I'm about to try some HS-6 to see if I can lower the PF a little and get it flatter shooting. The 165gr were not flat enough with any load I tried.

A friend who shoots a Glock in Limited decided he was tired of getting beat at the club shoots by people shooting dots. So he had a FF# mounted to his slide. He decided to go whole hog and bought a Wolf (I think) barrel with four widely space popples figuring he could shoot 9mm Major. I told him he was going to have the dickens of a time making Major with all those hole and a short barrel. I recommended he start with a 124gr. He listened to the light and fast crown and used 115gr bullet over an obscene amount of slow powder. Results were horrible. Not only was the recoil bad, it was deafening and accuracy sucked. He could not keep the shots on an 18" by 24" target board at 15 yards. On top of that, he didn't even make Major.

He came back a couple of days later with some 124gr loads. This time he didn't go off the deep end and load way hotter than max. Recoil, noise and accuracy were all better, but not good enough. We finally convinced him he was probably not ever going to make Major with his setup. Another friend offered him some of his competition loads. They were a 147 poly coated bullet over 3.something of Autocomp. PF was around 145. After much prodding, he tried them. Recoil was light, noise was normal, and all of a sudden he could hit anything he shot at. His splits were faster as well. As a result, he completely changed his thinking. He figured he'd rather hit what he shot at, so he would go Open Minor in USPSA. He is now tinkering with load development using 147s and some 124s trying to improve accuracy.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Try some WST at 140-150PF with 124 grain bullets. It will be accurate and will work the comp to some degree. HS-6 will be dirty at really low power factors. Autocomp may work as well at the lower power factor but I have not tried it for accuracy below 165PF. Lots of powders out there. You may want to ask the guys locally what they are using. Thanks, Eric

[busdriver02]

I don't think a P-09 with an extended and threaded barrel counts as short. That said, with no need to make major just skip all the super slow powders and since you have a comp skip all the super fast powders.

Grab whatever you have that's middle of the road and give it a shot. Your limitation is going to be the throat on the P-09 is fairly short and not very accommodating of long OALs.