Shotgun tube restrictions

[mertbl]

Our local rulebook actually says loaded with 9 rounds before the start signal.

I think there should be a lot more spot checks. I have seen/RO'd a lot of "confused" people who think 8+1 means 9 in the tube with an empty chamber start/staged gun.

Edited January 20, 2016 by mertbl

[racknrider]

Just do away with preloading tubes.

[Nightops]

Even at club level outlaw 3 gun matches I've been to, all loading is under the supervision of someone else. This really is as simple as whatever the division/event capacity for what you are shooting, lay those out on the loading table and a RO/SO/Scorekeeper watches them go in the gun. For loaded start I lay out 10 shells. 8 for tube, 1 for chamber, 1 for match saver.

Easy fix, and simple, I'd gladly help out the squad and watch people load up rather than have to go out and paste/paint/reset targets.

[Langenator]

I don't think I've ever shot a match that counted rounds on a matchsaver or any other shell holder attached to the outside of the gun against capacity limits.

What I have seen is a shooter who was so slick and quick with loading his matchsaver that I thought he had overloaded his gun.

[jrswanson1]

Did I accidentally click on the SASS Wire site?

[Rucker61]

In the outlaw matches we shoot out on the Pawnee, the typical shotgun start load is 2, sometimes with one chambered, sometimes not.

[bret]

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Doesn't the 8+1 start level the playing field no matter how long the tube?

They are saying people cheat.

That is why the R.O. needs to count the shots, just like we do in production or L10.

Bump them to open if they get caught cheating, no warnings.

[Bryan 45]

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Doesn't the 8+1 start level the playing field no matter how long the tube?

They are saying people cheat.

That is why the R.O. needs to count the shots, just like we do in production or L10.

Bump them to open if they get caught cheating, no warnings.

As an RO, I have a LOT better things to do than count shots.

[bret]

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. Doesn't the 8+1 start level the playing field no matter how long the tube?

They are saying people cheat.

That is why the R.O. needs to count the shots, just like we do in production or L10.

Bump them to open if they get caught cheating, no warnings.

As an RO, I have a LOT better things to do than count shots.

How hard is it to count to 9?

When I am R.O. I count shots, even when I watch someone running a stage I count shots, not hard to do and watch the gun in you are the R.O. on the timer,,it's not hard for anyone to count shots if you are paying attention.

What do you recommend, the R.O. on the timer counting the shells at the make ready?

Not being able to bring a pre loaded shotgun up to the line when you are the shooter will slow things down.

[Stlhead]

bret,

You do not understand the issue. Shotguns are not the same as pistols.

[bret]

bret,

You do not understand the issue. Shotguns are not the same as pistols.

Really a shotgun is not the same as a pistol, I would have never known. Thanks for pointing that out.

How hard is it to count to 8, see a guy load a tube or 9, see the bolt lock back?

Or watch him load at the buzzer and start shooting?

I shoot a shotgun once in awhile and have been to a 3 gun match before, I think I understand the difference between my shotguns and my pistols.

If a guy wants a long tube and Wants to stay in tactical, he can't load more than 9 total before the buzzer, the long tube makes it harder to ditch in a barrrl and shoot through ports.

I prefer a long tube on my benelli, have an xrail for it and one one my versamax, but I don't see the advantage of an xrail in 3 gun, I use it for my weekly matches.

[Benelli Chick]

As was said before, I believe they meant shotguns are different than pistols for counting rounds.

Some old school people load without taking the shotgun off their shoulder, which makes it harder to know when they load... As compared to seeing the mag drop!

[bret]

As was said before, I believe they meant shotguns are different than pistols for counting rounds.

Some old school people load without taking the shotgun off their shoulder, which makes it harder to know when they load... As compared to seeing the mag drop!

I can count shells, do it every Thursday night in our shotgun match, even when I am not R.O. I count shells for guys in tactical.

Don't have to see a mag drop to know when someone should be reloading, some guys will load as soon as the buzzer goes off if they have to move into position to shoot.

Do you recommend the R.O. count the shells as the guy loads the gun at the make ready?

We preload to speed things up, so we count shells, it's a local club level match so if an R.O. misses something in the count it's not a big deal.

The stage I worked at area 6 Multi Gun had a shotgun portion with slugs and birdshot, we had to not only count slugs being fired at a moving target,,we had to make sure they didn't engage the steel that was to be shot with birdshot, with a slug,,and if they burned a slug, they did it following the rules.

To me it isn't hard to count shots in a shotgun or a pistol.

[Langenator]

As was said before, I believe they meant shotguns are different than pistols for counting rounds.

Some old school people load without taking the shotgun off their shoulder, which makes it harder to know when they load... As compared to seeing the mag drop!

When I worked at FN last fall, I counted shots on the shotgun (if the shooter used it; it was optional on our stage) if I wasn't the primary RO running the shooter.

There was one shooter that I thought fired 10 without a reload - but he was just so quick with his matchsaver, with the gun not leaving his shoulder, that I missed it. (My view was also obstructed by his body; primary had a better view and saw the load.)

If you have multiple ROs, detailing a secondary to count shots is probably the way to go if you're worried about the issue.

[Bryan 45]

What do you recommend, the R.O. on the timer counting the shells at the make ready?

Simple- I recommend a maximum capacity of 8+1 rounds in the shotgun for all but open.

The RO's job is safety. There's nothing unsafe about the capacity of the shotgun, which is specifically why it should not be the RO's concern.

[bret]

What do you recommend, the R.O. on the timer counting the shells at the make ready?

Simple- I recommend a maximum capacity of 8+1 rounds in the shotgun for all but open.

The RO's job is safety. There's nothing unsafe about the capacity of the shotgun, which is specifically why it should not be the RO's concern.

So you want to ban any tube that holds more than 8 shells?

[Bryan 45]

Yes. That's what I stated in post #5 of this topic.

[bret]

Yes. That's what I stated in post #5 of this topic.

I disagree with your idea, a long tube is not unsafe, it complies with the rules and of someone is caught cheating they get bumped to open or are possibly subject to unsportsmanlike conduct D.Q.

I start with division capacity or less at the start, but sometimes the long tube comes in handy.

[Stlhead]

bret,

I think we all understand your position now, thank you for your input.

[Bigsampson]

Sounds like allot of tube envy going on here.

Some people just can't handle the fact that my tube is longer and can perform longer than theirs.

[Alaskapopo]

Question how much of a problem is it down there? Do you really think shooters are cheating that much. If you think you had a cheater watch them more closely and DQ and ban them from future matches if you suspect it was intentional

when they are caught. Problem solved they will be an example.

[Religious Shooter]

How do you go about enforcing a rule that stipulates a tube can mechanically only hold X amount of rounds?

So in addition to that you would also need to police the length of the shells that the shooter is also using?

[Bryan 45]

How do you go about enforcing a rule that stipulates a tube can mechanically only hold X amount of rounds?

So in addition to that you would also need to police the length of the shells that the shooter is also using?

Blue Ridge has always been a "maximum capacity 8+1" rule set. It's easy to check any tubes that are suspicious by grabbing any box of 2 3/4" shells and seeing if the tube will hold more than 8. If it does, it's OPEN for the competitor.

I haven't seen any autoloaders that will run on the boutique short shells. Most pump guns won't even cycle them. I also haven't seen anyone at a major using these type of shells. There were a couple Russians at the Pan Am in 2013 that were using a 2 5/16" or so Slug, but I've never seen these available in the US.

[bret]

How do you go about enforcing a rule that stipulates a tube can mechanically only hold X amount of rounds?

So in addition to that you would also need to police the length of the shells that the shooter is also using?

Blue Ridge has always been a "maximum capacity 8+1" rule set. It's easy to check any tubes that are suspicious by grabbing any box of 2 3/4" shells and seeing if the tube will hold more than 8. If it does, it's OPEN for the competitor.

I haven't seen any autoloaders that will run on the boutique short shells. Most pump guns won't even cycle them. I also haven't seen anyone at a major using these type of shells. There were a couple Russians at the Pan Am in 2013 that were using a 2 5/16" or so Slug, but I've never seen these available in the US.

What rules is the match at Blue Ridge run under?

[Bryan 45]

Blue Ridge Mountain Rules. http://brm3g.com/Pictures/Home%20Pg/2015%20BRM3G%20Rules.pdf

See 6.3.2.6.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Bryan 45