usmc0326 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 (edited) I just got my new 2011 and I did a function check on it. Sometimes it passes sometimes it doesn't.Randomly it won't cock...I start out with no mag inserted, no magazne inserted, no round in chamber.I rack the slide and sometimes it cocks, sometimes it doesn't. This example it cocks, weapon on safe, release beavertail safety(engaged safety), attempt to fire, no fire (Pass).Switch safety selector to fire, disengage grip safety, press trigger, hammer drops. (Pass)Cycle slide with finger still pressing rearward on trigger, hammer follows slide and does not cock. (fail)Attempt to half cock and full cock manually and no go. Manually guide hammer down after release and half cock notch doesn't engage.If I remove pressure from the trigger and cycle the slide again it will cock. >>> ???One time it was cocked with safety off, I engaged the safety and it dropped the hammer. From what I have seen previously this is a doubling handgun yes? Fixes ? Other than melting it down into a 60mm shell of course. I am thinking maybe the disconnector is not functioning properly but can't quite tell exactly how. Edited November 14, 2015 by usmc0326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Try reinstalling the sear spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Who did you buy it from? DON"T DO ANYTHING to the gun! Send it back on their dime to be repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 How much do you want for it? Better than melting it down. No in all seriousness sounds like your spring which is the flat spring behind the mainspring housing is either installed incorrectly or the sear spring leg on the flat spring is not bent far enough to put enough pressure on the sear so it will reset properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 +1 for the sear spring. Take it all apart and put it back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 I took it apart, cleaned it. And the sear spring second leaf was bent the wrong way, so I was thinking it's got to be an attempt to add more pressure to the sear. Well systemmically something has to be f*#ked up. Looked deeper (my experience is shooter, less armorer) and I think the disconnector is hanging up in the hole in the frame it travels in. Going to get a reamer to smooth out the bore and see if that remedies it. This is the first step in dealing with this ... stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 DON"T ream anything yet! Take the sear spring out, push the disconnector upward with a pencil then see if it drops. If need be, polish the round head of the disconnector for clearance. If you fuke up the disconnector a new one is a helluva lot cheaper than a new frame. Never shorten the disconnector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Pat, PM me, before you do anything we'll figure out the problem. CYa, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I took it apart, cleaned it. And the sear spring second leaf was bent the wrong way, so I was thinking it's got to be an attempt to add more pressure to the sear. Well systemmically something has to be f*#ked up. Looked deeper (my experience is shooter, less armorer) and I think the disconnector is hanging up in the hole in the frame it travels in. Going to get a reamer to smooth out the bore and see if that remedies it. This is the first step in dealing with this ... stuff. Here is the NUMBER ONE RULE of all gunsmithing: 1) If you think two parts are interfering with each other, GRIND ON WHICHEVER PART IS CHEAPER. Do nothing to the frame, the disconnector is very cheap to replace if you mess it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I took it apart, cleaned it. And the sear spring second leaf was bent the wrong way, so I was thinking it's got to be an attempt to add more pressure to the sear. Well systemmically something has to be f*#ked up. Looked deeper (my experience is shooter, less armorer) and I think the disconnector is hanging up in the hole in the frame it travels in. Going to get a reamer to smooth out the bore and see if that remedies it. This is the first step in dealing with this ... stuff. Slow it down a bit. How did you determine the middle leaf was bent the wrong way? Which way was it bent? You do realize that the middle leaf has a compound curve right - bowed in in the middle and out towards the top? Reinstall the spring correctly and I expect it will work. Your description was what I have seen in my 2011s when the sear spring leaf is not correctly seated on the sear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) DON"T ream anything yet! Take the sear spring out, push the disconnector upward with a pencil then see if it drops. If need be, polish the round head of the disconnector for clearance. If you fuke up the disconnector a new one is a helluva lot cheaper than a new frame. Never shorten the disconnector. So I checked the assembly, the sear, disco and pin installed in the frame, the disco binds ALOT just before the bottom of the stroke. Had to press with eraser and it clicks. I used to be a jet mechanic , I checked the bore of the disco hole with a set of - gauge pins and a bore mic. The hole wasn't uniform but didn't know this trick for testing the fit. That was a million dollar tip, thanks. Will see if I can find a cratex or something and take down the diameter of the disco before I move to the reamer but I am 99% sure the bore needs to be uniformed (not trying to make the diameter bigger, just the correct size. It's a CK frame so it's been a bit of a nightmare with poor machining and things no where near where they should be dimensionally. I couldn't however find the bore call out for the disco hole in the Kuhnhausen book. I took it apart, cleaned it. And the sear spring second leaf was bent the wrong way, so I was thinking it's got to be an attempt to add more pressure to the sear. Well systemmically something has to be f*#ked up. Looked deeper (my experience is shooter, less armorer) and I think the disconnector is hanging up in the hole in the frame it travels in. Going to get a reamer to smooth out the bore and see if that remedies it. This is the first step in dealing with this ... stuff. Here is the NUMBER ONE RULE of all gunsmithing: 1) If you think two parts are interfering with each other, GRIND ON WHICHEVER PART IS CHEAPER. Do nothing to the frame, the disconnector is very cheap to replace if you mess it up. I wasn't planning on making the hole bigger, planning on making the hole uniform diameter. You can see where they drilled the hole, likely didn't ream after. I took it apart, cleaned it. And the sear spring second leaf was bent the wrong way, so I was thinking it's got to be an attempt to add more pressure to the sear. Well systemmically something has to be f*#ked up. Looked deeper (my experience is shooter, less armorer) and I think the disconnector is hanging up in the hole in the frame it travels in. Going to get a reamer to smooth out the bore and see if that remedies it. This is the first step in dealing with this ... stuff. Slow it down a bit. How did you determine the middle leaf was bent the wrong way? Which way was it bent? You do realize that the middle leaf has a compound curve right - bowed in in the middle and out towards the top? Reinstall the spring correctly and I expect it will work. Your description was what I have seen in my 2011s when the sear spring leaf is not correctly seated on the sear. The left leaf is bent a bit in the normal direction, slight bow, the third is bent up the highest, and the second leaf is bent towards the trigger, usually they are bent somewhere between the first and third leaves. I also double checked with the Kuhnhausen book and it was way the F off... Edited November 15, 2015 by usmc0326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The only thing I see wrong with that spring (although you didn't include the full leafs in the photo) is that someone has attacked it with a punch for some reason? Isn't this a new gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Yeah I would get rid of that spring and get a new one. Looks like it was rode hard and put away wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranoel Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 That spring was in a NEW pistol?? Send it back with a note describing how displeased you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Yes, this was a new build. The spring was photographed as an example of how not thrilled I am with the build... I didn't take a picture before I bent it back. (pictures were after thought since camera wasn't in my office) Usually the second leaf is somewhere between the first and third leaf. The second leaf was bent toward the trigger bow (presumably to add pressure to the disconnector/ trigger bow to reset the disconnector).When I get some time I will massage the disconnector and see if that fixest things. In the mean time I need to check with our local gunsmith to see if he stocks these parts. Edited November 16, 2015 by usmc0326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) The spring was photographed as an example of how not thrilled I am with the build... I didn't take a picture before I bent it back. Usually the second leaf is somewhere between the first and third leaf. The second leaf was bent toward the trigger bow (presumably to add pressure to the disconnector/ trigger bow to reset the disconnector). When I get some time I will massage the disconnector and see if that fixest things. In the mean time I need to check with our local gunsmith to see if he stocks these parts. Usually the middle of the second leaf is furthest forward. Where do you think the pressure comes from to reset the trigger? Bending it back further than the leaf that rests on the sear is a pretty good way to fail a function check, but... OK... Clearly you don't need my help here...I'd be interested to see what CK have to say about the odds of a spring looking like that leaving their shop. Looks like something that was fixed until it stopped working. Edited November 16, 2015 by peterthefish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 The punch marks are used to peen (widen) the spring so id doesn't move around in the grip. Older STI/SVI grips are wider where the spring sits in the grip than 1911 springs, allowing them to sometimes move and slip off the sear. That is still a pretty shoddy looking sear spring and the peening could have been done more professionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) The spring was photographed as an example of how not thrilled I am with the build... I didn't take a picture before I bent it back. Usually the second leaf is somewhere between the first and third leaf. The second leaf was bent toward the trigger bow (presumably to add pressure to the disconnector/ trigger bow to reset the disconnector). When I get some time I will massage the disconnector and see if that fixest things. In the mean time I need to check with our local gunsmith to see if he stocks these parts. Usually the middle of the second leaf is furthest forward. Where do you think the pressure comes from to reset the trigger? Bending it back further than the leaf that rests on the sear is a pretty good way to fail a function check, but... OK... Clearly you don't need my help here...I'd be interested to see what CK have to say about the odds of a spring looking like that leaving their shop. Looks like something that was fixed until it stopped working. Your clearly not getting it, The ENTIRE second leaf was bent THE OPPOSITE WAY as it comes... The grip/ frame etc were all 2013/2014/2015 parts. Edited November 16, 2015 by usmc0326 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Patrick, The spring shown in the picture looks like a Nowlin spring, good springs. See if you can get the same. When you get the new spring put it in the grip as it normally goes, leave the grip safety off and slide the mainspring housing up into the grip. Looking at the back of the grip and see if the top of the spring (where it sits on the sear) will rock left and right. See if the left leaf will move left and slip partially off the sear leg. If it does, remove the sear spring and with a sharp prick punch put a good punch mark in the 8:00 o'clock position as the dimple in the spring in your photo, then another in the 2:00 o'clock position. The top of your photo is 12:00 o'clock. The idea is to force the sear spring to rotate clockwise so it sits on the left sear leg and doesn't try to drop off. There is NO need for four dimples in the sear spring as yours does in the photo. Just 8 and 2. The dimples must be close to the edge so metal gets forced off the two edges of the sear spring. If you push too much metal outward and the spring will not lay back into the grip, just file a bit and check the fit. I'm sending you a PM regarding disconnector hole in the top of your frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 The spring was photographed as an example of how not thrilled I am with the build... I didn't take a picture before I bent it back. Usually the second leaf is somewhere between the first and third leaf. The second leaf was bent toward the trigger bow (presumably to add pressure to the disconnector/ trigger bow to reset the disconnector). When I get some time I will massage the disconnector and see if that fixest things. In the mean time I need to check with our local gunsmith to see if he stocks these parts. Usually the middle of the second leaf is furthest forward. Where do you think the pressure comes from to reset the trigger? Bending it back further than the leaf that rests on the sear is a pretty good way to fail a function check, but... OK... Clearly you don't need my help here...I'd be interested to see what CK have to say about the odds of a spring looking like that leaving their shop. Looks like something that was fixed until it stopped working. Bobby and I had a lengthy discussion about the geometric and machining issues with this frame. I said usually when I buy blem frames and such I can't find what the blems are. This one there were a bunch of issues that I found, he said he was fine with selling them as first line product... He said return it and he would refund, however the shop I was speaking to about the build said that they had all the tricks for making frames work right. So I trusted that pledge. Didn't help that I waited 6 months for it on a 2 month promise. I looked around and it would have been another 4 months or more to get a Pheonix trinity or similar short/ tactical dust conver gun and STI wasn't selling them in frame/ grip sets. I updated the comment above with an example of how the spring was bent when I pulled it out of the gun ( not like it's going to go back in the gun anyhow lol). The story line to me says they bent it that way in an attempt to preload the disconnector trying to get it to reset. and all the hammering and nonsense was an attempt to get the gun to work right without actually diging into each part. Hope this provides a more clear picture. The punch marks are used to peen (widen) the spring so id doesn't move around in the grip. Older STI/SVI grips are wider where the spring sits in the grip than 1911 springs, allowing them to sometimes move and slip off the sear. That is still a pretty shoddy looking sear spring and the peening could have been done more professionally. It's a new (2014?) factory sti grip with the bevel on the left to accominate the narrower sear springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absocold Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Whoever thrashed that spring is bad and should feel bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 They might not cold.So I found the blueprints for the 1911, the disconnector hole call out is 0.164 -0.000/ +0.003. So it's within the range it should be.However the bore is irregular. a 0.165 gauge pin fits and is loose (hole larger than 0.165), 0.166 minus gauge pin slides in 0.062 ish and stops. Will order a 0.1665 reamer (since a chucked reamer will only cut to about 0.1667... still within our tolerances. Interestingly I borrowed a friends kimber 1911 and his hole gagues out at about 0.1705. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc0326 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Disco fixed, still f*#ked up. Swapped out sear spring from my kimber just for fun. Passes function test. Thanks for the help guys. I may be good with making things. But I am still not a 2011 gunsmith lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'm shocked that a non-goofed sear installed correctly fixed it [emoji56]. Glad you got it running now to go shoot the snot out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 So to be clear, it's a CK blemished frame and Bobby or CK did not build the gun? It doesn't look like Bobby or Matts work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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