fishdude Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Hey everyone. First a little background. I have been happily loading on a 650 for about 6-7 years now. Calibers include 9/40/45/223. I have probably loaded 20K+ cartridges over the years. I have been very very very happy with the 650. My problem started when I recently converted back to 9mm. I have 2-3 cases per thousand slip through station 1 without getting the primer removed. It does not appear the pin is going through and pulling it back in. The case is lining up and goes through the die as normal. Seems like the pin just doesn't have enouhg "oomph" to push out some of the primers. These are not crimped cases, they have all run through the press previosouly without issue. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 No idea, but I have the same issue with my 550. Basically if I try to set the decapping pin any deeper, it will bend. I make sure I go to the bottom of the stroke, still have quite a bit of 9mm primers that will not pop out. Frustrating to no end. subscribed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Guys, go read the 650 tips and tricks thread about primer drawback. Basically, the primer is getting stuck on the end of the pin and getting pulled back in. Some folks put a chisel tip on the pin, some just radius. You just need to do something about the profile of the decap pin tip. Later, Chuck PS: The answer to your next question is probably in that thread also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 What brand is your size/decap die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Guys, go read the 650 tips and tricks thread about primer drawback. Basically, the primer is getting stuck on the end of the pin and getting pulled back in. Some folks put a chisel tip on the pin, some just radius. You just need to do something about the profile of the decap pin tip. Later, Chuck PS: The answer to your next question is probably in that thread also will check it and the 550 thread out. didn't even think to look and didn't know they existed. thanks! Edited November 3, 2015 by tha1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishdude Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thanks Chuck. As I mentioned in my original quote I am not pulling the primers back in. I have read the tips & tricks years ago but just looked again for updates, thanks. Dillon Resizing Die with 20K plus cases loaded through it. Take it apart to clean it occasionally! Guys, go read the 650 tips and tricks thread about primer drawback. Basically, the primer is getting stuck on the end of the pin and getting pulled back in. Some folks put a chisel tip on the pin, some just radius. You just need to do something about the profile of the decap pin tip. Later, Chuck PS: The answer to your next question is probably in that thread also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thanks Chuck. As I mentioned in my original quote I am not pulling the primers back in. I have read the tips & tricks years ago but just looked again for updates, thanks. Dillon Resizing Die with 20K plus cases loaded through it. Take it apart to clean it occasionally! Guys, go read the 650 tips and tricks thread about primer drawback. Basically, the primer is getting stuck on the end of the pin and getting pulled back in. Some folks put a chisel tip on the pin, some just radius. You just need to do something about the profile of the decap pin tip. Later, Chuck PS: The answer to your next question is probably in that thread also Oops... Are they crimped primers? Is the clip on top of the die solid? Not that you haven't but you may want to make sure the die is still set to the proper depth and not loose in the tool head or the part that holds the rod is not loose. Calling Dillon may not be a bad idea either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanHoover Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I'm having exactly the same problem. Just switched back to 9mm with Dillon dies after loading 20K 40 with Lee dies. 4-5 per thousand won't push out. All different head stamps and don't appear to be crimped primers. The other issue I'm having is primers not wanting to go into the case on the up stroke. At least half the time I have to let off and try again or rotate the case in the shell plate to get the primer seated. Any help appreciated. Don't remember 9mm being this much of a PITA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I have 2-3 cases per thousand slip through station 1 without getting the primer removed. So, if you don't think that it is draw back, what exactly is the problem? Is the pin bending or breaking? Is the primer deformed into a cone shape from the pin and protruding from the case head without being pushed out fully? Got a pic of one of the problem cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Wait until you try to deprime a 45 case with a 40 case stuck inside. Trust me, it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I have 2-3 cases per thousand slip through station 1 without getting the primer removed. So, if you don't think that it is draw back, what exactly is the problem? Is the pin bending or breaking? Is the primer deformed into a cone shape from the pin and protruding from the case head without being pushed out fully? Got a pic of one of the problem cases? It has to be pulling the primer back in. If it only happens rarely this means the die is ok otherwise. If there is no hole in the primer then it has to be pushing it out and pulling it back in. There's just no other explanation that I can imagine. Actually if it's berden primed maybe a dillon die has enough movement in the pin mechanism to retract far enough to not break the pin or clip off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I have 2-3 cases per thousand slip through station 1 without getting the primer removed. So, if you don't think that it is draw back, what exactly is the problem? Is the pin bending or breaking? Is the primer deformed into a cone shape from the pin and protruding from the case head without being pushed out fully? Got a pic of one of the problem cases? There's just no other explanation that I can imagine. That's exactly what I am thinking as well, which is why I asking for a few more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have 2-3 cases per thousand slip through station 1 without getting the primer removed. So, if you don't think that it is draw back, what exactly is the problem?Is the pin bending or breaking? Is the primer deformed into a cone shape from the pin and protruding from the case head without being pushed out fully? Got a pic of one of the problem cases? There's just no other explanation that I can imagine.That's exactly what I am thinking as well, which is why I asking for a few more details.i know. I wasn't questioning your questions I just sort of randomly quoted your post to add my own thoughts and questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 That happens occasionally on my 650 too. It prevents the platform from being raised all the way, and I have to fish the case out of Station 1. The primer is deformed into a cone shape, but it doesn't pop out of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 If the cases have gotten wet the sides of the primer cup will sometimes stick to the case and it will then either leave the sides of the primer cup in the case and totally punch the end out or just deform it into the cone shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Should be easy to know if it is draw back or not using a Dillon pistol die, if your used to the sounds of the machine in operation. The "snap" of the E clip forced into the top of the die by the spring, once the primer is shoved out of the pocket, would be absent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanHoover Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) 5 out of 100. This is bs! I don't see a cone,crimp,hole or anything else out of the ordinary. All different head stamps. Pin is not bent or broken. Should I just go back to Lee decapper or what? Edited November 4, 2015 by BryanHoover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I would try that for 100 cases and see if the problem persists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 They are 100% getting pulled back in. The pin doesn't pierce the primer when that happens. People have posted about putting a contour on the end of the pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Should I just go back to Lee decapper or what? Just stone the sharp edges/corners off of the end of the de-capping pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishdude Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 Ok Gang - I am going to take the edges off my pin to be sure that is not the problem. I am going to run a batch tonight so I will post results. The 1-2 per thousand that get missed are not crimped. I always check & would not blame the press for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The de-capping pin punches out the spent primer, but the primer sticks to the pin causing is to be partially drawn back up into the primer pocket. The shell plate then rotates to the priming station and the new primer pushes the spent primer back into position and seats it. The shell plate and primer wheel rotate again and the new primer that should have been pushed into the primer pocket falls onto the "ski jump". The shuttle style priming system does a similar thing, except that the new primer that should have been seated now just stays on the primer punch and gets seated into the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDA Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Either your decapping pin is not set low enough (unlikely if ~997 of 1,000 are being deprimed and your pin is in tact), you aren't cycling the press fully (seems you'd know if this was the case or not) or they are getting sucked back in (as others have stated despite your initial comment). Some primers seem to put up a fight. I have found that putting an edge to the tip of the depriming pin helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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