.40 cal IPSC Maj loads

[Greg Schroeder]

I am currently shooting Winchester 180gr JHP loaded with 5.9grs N340 1.23oal.

I have a considerable amount of N320 that I would like to use.  Any suggestions

[benos]

Greg,

If you're shooting a .40, the 180 gr jacketed with about 4.8 - 4.9 grs of 320 is a great load. Quite a bit softer than the 340.

be

[Chris Leong]

I heard from the locals that recently, the 220gr bullet came into fashion, and left it just as soon. Everybody's back with the 180gr now. I wonder what happened. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a 220 would have to have less velocity for the same PF than a 180? That would mean a softer recoil? Better for Limited? I can see that maybe for open the recoil may be too little to drive the comps well... Anyway, anybody know the story behind this? If 220 isn't so bad, I know of a distributor who's sitting on 50,000 rounds she can't unload...

[Chris Leong]

I double checked and it's 200 grain bullets. So - I guess with a bullet that's 220 grains, coming in at a PF of 165 means a velocity of only, what, 750fps? And that's too slow, right? (Actually a friend who reads this forum set me straight, so I can't take the credit) So then what is the formula for calculating what's too slow for a particular weight bullet?

[Scooter]

Power Factor = Bullet weight (grains) x Velocity (fps) / 1000.  

[Chris Leong]

Thanks Scooter. But what is the formula for calculating the velocity below which a given bullet weight loses stability and becomes inaccurate?

(not the formula below which we fail to make an IPSC power division)

[Ron Ankeny]

Chris:

As a general rule, the guys who shoot Open and Limited seem to prefer the lighter bullets because of the "impulse" the 180's impart to the pistol. It just seems like everything is happening faster.

OTOH, a lot of folks still shoot the 200 grainers. In fact, most of the guys in our local club shoot 200 grain bullets. The heavier bullet takes the "edge" or "snap" out of the shot and lots of guys like that.

Precision bullets does make a 220 grain .40 bullet and I shot some. They have no snap to them and the recoil is more of a push. They are pretty mild shooting, but the pistol seems sluggish. Hope that helps.

[Chris Leong]

Yes indeed it does help!

Nowm did you notice an actual, rather than perceived/felt difference in split times between the two weights? Given the same ability in the shooter to ride the recoil and cycle, that is?

[Phil Dunlop]

Chris,

I've been down this road, and could measure no difference between 180's and 200's.

My preference is for the 180, which just feels faster, but when I was using a lighter gun (std. SVI) I prefered the 200 which was more comfortable. A friend shooting a Bull M5 says the same.

For the record this years Australian Std. Nats was won with 208gn bullets in .40

[Chris Leong]

Thanks, mate. That's what I was starting to think... Hmmm... 7000 grains in a pound, so 200-180 = 20 grains = .457 oz...

Don't think a newbie like me would even notice...

[Ron Ankeny]

Chris:

To answer your question, there is a huge difference between the 180 and the 220, but that gap narrows when you compare the 180 with a 200 grainer. I shoot everything from 155 to 200 depending on the game, but I think I am going to settle on the 180's. You should probably try both weights in your particular pistol.

[Chris Leong]

Thanks Ron. I will.

[benos]

I think I posted this on the old forum - It's really a personal preference issue. Some stock gun shooters perfer the slower, softer recoil of the heavier bullets (200's), and some prefer the slightly faster and sharper recoil of the lighter bullets (180's).

be

[Chris Leong]

Anybody have any suggestions as to which flat point bullet to buy (jacketed)? I'm assuming VV N320 and Winchester SR primers in a P1640

[ErikW]

Buy whatever you can get cheap. You don't need ultra accuracy in a shooting sport where 25 yards is considered a long shot.

I buy Montana Golds direct because they are acceptably uniform, acceptably accurate, and comparatively inexpensive in case quantities.

I only use jacketed for the weight and shape uniformity and the fact that I can get a softer Major load with my powder.

[Chris Leong]

Thanks!

[Patrick Sweeney]

I get my jacketed bullets for the most part from West Coast Bullet.  In the Limited gun I use 180's, in the Modified gun I use 155's.  They are hard enough to drive through a pin and practically use again.  Accurate enough to plink the rifle pin rack at 75 yards.  Cheap, too.

For .45, I'm torn between Montana Gold 185's and Sierra 230's.  

[Kevin Kline]

Chris,

I've also been down the 180,200,220 gr road before. The heavier bullets seem to give more push and recoil back into your hand than the 180's but the muzzle doesn't move as much. However, the 180's seem to move the muzzle a little more, but faster and less push and recoil in your hand coming back at you. I don't think the 180's flip more or less than the heavier bullets, but I think they flip and cycle faster than the heavier bullets. I think it is more of a perception of how fast or slow the gun flips and recoils. I like the 200's because it kind of puts me in the middle of the road. I get to have the medium of both worlds. It all depends on how you want and like the gun to feel.

Kevin  TY31384

[bonedaddy]

I do the majority of my practice and almost all of my match shooting with a .40 STI.  The load that I like the best is 3.9 gr of clays under a 180 lead, or copper coated Ranier for matches.  The recoil is quite soft, and it functions the gun really well.  The thing that troubles me is that there is almost always a pretty large (30-40fps) deviation from fastest to slowest on the chronograph.  I really like this load, but it has given me a scare or two at the chrono stage.  Could it be primers?   I use mostly CCI and Winchester small pistol.

It is also very apparent when the brass from the warmer loads flies 10 feet from the gun and the lighter loads only 3-5 ft.  I use an XL 650 so I'm pretty sure it isn't the powder measure.  Other powders run about 8 to 15 fps deviation in the same gun, same bullet.  Can anyone help me here?  

[Phil Dunlop]

Whats the OAL of the load Bonedaddy?

Just a suggestion, but I found consistency improved as the space inside the case was taken up by seating deeper.

My loads use about 5gr N320 and at about 1.185" consistency runs about 15f/s

I have had some frights with the first shot at the chrono, but its the best 3 out of 6 that count.

P.D.

[Flexmoney]

Bonedaddy,

Do you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die?

[bonedaddy]

Phil and Flexmoney, thanks for your replies.  My OAL is 1.163 and my dies are Hornaday.  This is only because I was too impatient to order Dillon dies when I finished building the gun.  (Had to try it right now) I'm using a fairly good taper crimp though.  If a Lee die might help, I would rather buy one than switch powder.  However, I'm going to look for some N320, because a lot of people here seem to like it.    A guy known as "Chronoman" once demonstrated for me that a gun shooting Clays would chrono a little higher if the muzzle was tipped up just before firing the shot.  He said it was because it burned better if it was against the primer.

    Last Sunday I went to an all steel match in Dubois, WY and it was about 40 degrees in rain, sleet, hail.  I was loaded to about 155 pf and the gun was shooting just beautiful at 80 degrees.   The first shot out of the holster on stage one went poof.  Gun stovepiped four times in four strings.  I spent the rest of the day walking around with my loaded mags stuffed in my underwear (breifs, not boxers) and my spare ammo  the car.   It must have worked though, the jams ended.  (sorta gives new meaning to the term hot pants)

[Chriss Grube]

BD,

Try titegroup. It doesn't seem to be as temp. and case position sensitive as some of the other stuff. I'm running 4.3 grains with a 180 Lead TC at 1.165 for a 168 PF. Groups great and shoots real soft. I'm going out to day to play with some Longshot in my open gun.

[Phil Dunlop]

Thankfully we don't get sererely cold weather, but we have found N320 to be very stable from our normal15-25*C to 33 in Northern Australia, and 40 in the Philippines.

[bonedaddy]

Chriss, you know I think I will shoot Tite Group.  I went through two or three pounds last year when I couldn't find any Clays locally.  Then, I shot 4.5 grains of TG  under a 165 copper coated Ranier at some steel matches last year. Ran flawlessly.  My records show std. dev. was 9 fps.   I still have a 1/4 pound or so to get me started.  

    I think that maybe the reason I've been stuck on Clays is that it really shoots "soft" in my gun.  But, once I've fired a few rounds,  that perception sort of melts away anyhow,  and I'm just shooting the gun.  Better to go for reliability and have the confidence that everything will work well.  Have you read Brian's latest post on Attitute, Fundamentals, and Techinique?  It ties in here somewhere with the decision to change powders, but of course, I can't explain exactly how.