Cutting Time Down

[ParaJoe]

A little background and info. Right now I am shooting L10 with my Para 14.45. I'm using a Galco Armortek holster and some Uncle Mike's double stack mag pouches. I have shot two local matches and am seeing my improvement over the time.

I just can't seem to make my reloads any smoother. But it seems that they are only rough when I am on the move. For instance, if I am running around a barricade and trying to reload at the same time, I mess it up. The mag misses the tube, I can't seem to grab it right, something happens. So I have tried to reloading while standing still after the last shot is fired on the current target and it works a lot better for me. I have compared the times and the reloading standing still is faster for me because I am able to move a lot quicker not having to think about reloading. I guess what I'm trying to ask how can I improve the on-the-move reload? I ordered the books on this website and hopefully I should receive them soon. Thanks for the help.

JOe

[mcoliver]

First on your equipment. Make those pouches slick so you don't need to put too much effort pulling the mags out. Armour-all usually works good.

On the reload, take it slow. Walk while reloading. Master the movements slowly and your body normally sorts out the timing. At which point you can then start on walking faster until such time that you can reload on the run.

What worked for me was to pay attention at the point where I'm about to insert the mag. I pause there to insure I got the mag pointed into the well. Practice more and you normally become fast enough to have the mag paused even before you complete your first step out of position. At the point that you're already moving, you're just guiding the mag in.

HTH.

[ong45]

JOe,

there is something to be said for doing one thing at a time. Better to do both things well by focusing your attention on just one thing rather than do a bunch of things badly.

It has been commented that Todd Jarret reloads so fast that it appears that he reloads before moving to the next postion. I believe that because he takes care of business (reloading) before moving that he gets it done faster than greased lightning.

James

[kevin c]

IIRC, Todd does believe in doing one thing at a time. Being as fast as he is, and moving as quickly as he does to the next item on the agenda, that doesn't cost him much time at all.

If you think of the anatomy, a person's arms are two foot plus long jointed levers attached to a flexible column (the spine) which is in turn is attached to another pair of even longer jointed levers. It's no wonder things bounce when we run.

I think BE says in TB that it's best to get the reload done before you finish the first couple steps out of the shooting position, perhaps for this very reason. TJ just does it faster than most.

[ParaJoe]

Well I went to the range today and I don't have much to report. I got some new gear today (Safariland Mag Pouches) so I had to try it out and of course everything was in a different spot from what I had practiced. The holster was in the same spot so my draws were on but my reloads were all over the place. I'm averaging a 1.5 second draw with an A zone hit at 15 yards and my reloads are between 2 and 2.5 seconds. Dry firing at home with my old rig I can get them down to 1.8 on the par timer (fastest and most consistent).

As a side note, I think have figured out what "letting your eyes see" means. As I was shooting today I could see the sights move, the slide cycle, brass ejecting. It was weird.

[benos]

As I was shooting today I could see the sights move, the slide cycle, brass ejecting. It was weird.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's good stuff.

I can relate to the bumbling the reload/running around thing. Over years of training, I learned that if I programed something vaguely or not at all, there's little chance it would happen properly. ("I've got all this time to get the reload in - it will surely happen by the time I get there.)

I feel like I'm still learning the value of doing ("finishing") one thing at a time.

be

[aXXman]

As I was shooting today I could see the sights move, the slide cycle, brass ejecting. It was weird.

Saturday was my third match, and I remember seeing the whole gun bouncing up and down while I shot a certain close array. I was really focused on not making mistakes and sticking to the plan, and letting the shooting just happen (a byproduct of my attention being on my stage management, not intentional). Pretty cool to see, although I didn't really think about it until later.

[sfinney]

Keep dry firing, you'll get those times down with your new gear, just takes getting use to.... and practice dry firing, with mag changes on the move, from spot to spot.....

Either way make sure that you are looking the mag in the whole as it nears the well, moving or not you have to SEE it go in... take that extra split second to really watch and guide it home the last inch or so. It sure looks like the GMs are just sorta throwing the mag at the gun, but they (usually) really are looking it in.

And as an aside - you didn't say of you have an magwell on that P14 or not; my personal experience has been that those square Para mags, with a stock mag opening, are like trying to stick a square peg in a..... well, square hole, but it is harder than most platforms.

Even if you can hit the reload 100% without a magwell, on the move a magwell will make it more forgiving.

[ParaJoe]

The gun doesn't have a magwell on it. I would really like to get one but there are so many of them out there and I'm just not sure of which one to choose. I put filed the very bottom of the tube so that it is like a funnel. It helps a little. I also went to Wally World and got me a travel size bottle of Armor-All for the mag pouches. I have been practicing with the new gear and I suppose my times are getting better. I am learning to watch for the magwell and guide the magazine all the way home. I haven't been doing that for some time and it's kind of ingrained but I'm working that out. I haven't really practiced reloading on the move yet, I have just been trying to get it done within the first two steps. I have a few little courses that I run through the house doing it. I can see myself becoming smoother with it though. It kinda freaks out the dog though.

My problem is I have to shift the pistol in my hand in order to hit the mag release button. So sometimes my grip doesn't come back the same everytime. If I'm thinking about it, it will, but if I'm not thinking, it does about 50 percent of the time. But I'm working the issue. Thanks for the help, JOe

[sfinney]

Para Magwells:

A lot of people like the S&A, but it requires machining your frame, some others need cutting and welding.

IMHO the best drop on magwell out there is the Dawson Precision one...... great opening, drops right on.

But practice your technique first - the magwell won't cure your problems, only minimize the bobbles when you do make mistakes. If can hit your stock well reliably, a magwell will be a cake walk

[Stumpnav]

ParaJoe,

I've recently gotten a P16 after shooting single stacks forever and have had some similar issues as you.

I stuck the $49 Dawson magwell on, went on easy and works great. If you hit the reload perfect, it doesn't do much for you, but if you miss a little, its worth its weight in gold. I also seem to get a more consistent grip with the magwell. I also have to move my hand a little to hit the mag release and I found the magwell allows me to maintain better control over the gun when my hand is moving for the release.

I stuck some skateboard tape on the slick front strap and that seems to help me keep a better grip.

I've thought about getting one of those release buttons for the right side and using my trigger finger so I don't have to change grips. I would love to hear from someone that has tried that.

[ParaJoe]

Right now I have the Hogue grips on the P14 and it makes it a little bigger but I like the way it feels in comparison to the stock grips. A question about the Dawson Precision magwell, can I still use the stock 10 round magazines without altering them? Thanks again, JOe

[wide45]

The Dawson magwell only works with Dawson base pads. You could put a Dawson base pad on the bottom of a 10 rnd mag, but the stock Para floor plates won't work.

The moving reload is the same as the standing reload. Just do it.

[TDean]

Joe, we're all always learning, that's for sure. I'm certainly not the best reloader out there, but I'm not too shabby either. It sucks to think that you can't hit the reload "on the move"; I know exactly what you're saying. Sometimes it just pays to keep the "triangulation" (arms, gun, hips) intact before you start moving thus warping that relationship. Even a super-quick reload takes 1 sec, but 1 could cost you the match, so we try to reload on the move.

It's certainly makes for a quicker time if you hit a smooth reload enroute.

I've learned that the most important part is to get as close to your natural triangulation as possible while moving. To do this, break it down to Explode, Coast, Float, Reload, Resume.

First, explode out of the shooting position. Once your body's up to speed ---coast--- at that speed while you float your top-end (cushion your upperbody from the pounding of your feet) While coasting/floating, get your shoulders as parallel as possible with your hips (not twisted) to index your natural triangulation. Basically your arms, gun and hips are in the same position relative to each other as they would be if you were standing still, BUT YOU'RE MOVING towards your next position. Once the reload is complete, resume action.

Be tenacious!

[Sam]

My problem is I have to shift the pistol in my hand in order to hit the mag release button. So sometimes my grip doesn't come back the same everytime.

Joe, I always shift my grip to hit the mag button. The mag button shouldn't be "kissed" in my opinion, it should be "punched"! Everyone has different styles on this. But, it isn't any slower to shift and "hit" the button while the other hand is heading for the mag on the belt. The benefit for me is in consistency. I believe it was worth my practice time to develop the shift/return technique. With enough practice, your grip will return the same every time.

[achard]

I'm using S&A magwell for my steel frame. When reloading try not to lower down your pistol towards your body. What I do is, I always keep my gun infront of my face so that I can see the magwell when reloading.

Also try to run as fast as you can.

I often practice my reload in a dim light area.

[ParaJoe]

The more that I practice the better I am getting at reloading on the move. I am going to load up some dud bullets so that I can practice with full weight magazines and that should help.

TDean- The way you explain it makes sense. I'll give that a try.

Sam- I do the same as you. Spin the gun and punch the mag button. I was thinking about getting the bigger button for it but I'm not really wanting to put too much more money into this pistol. I'm certainly not willing to spend the money on the magwell, and then invest the money into all of my mags.

achard- I try to keep the pistol right in front of my face the whole time so that I don't have to spend the time bringing it back up. No wasted movements. I will have to try the dimlight area. Thanks for the help folks, JOe

[sixx]

saving .3 second on your reload won't make up for hauling around a pointless extra 30-40 lbs, beyond your best wt (which is about 160 lbs for most men). Many guys are a full 1 second slower to cover 10 yds of movement than other men. If assault courses are your thing, running dashes will do a lot more for your times than will tinkering with the gun. I won a lot of assault courses with footwork, not gun technique

[diehli]

saving .3 second on your reload won't make up for hauling around a pointless extra 30-40 lbs, beyond your best wt (which is about  160 lbs for most men).  Many guys are a full 1 second slower to cover 10 yds of movement than other men. If assault courses are your thing, running dashes will do a lot more for your times than will tinkering with the gun.  I won a lot of assault courses with footwork, not gun technique

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't tell TGO or Taran that they're too fat to win... you might ruin their delusion!

[ParaJoe]

Well I shot a match yesterday and my reloads went well. The ones that stayed in the pistol did anyway. Last time I took them apart to clean I failed to realize that the follower must be put onto the spring and then the spring slid into the magazine. As a result of this the last round was really hard to get into the mag and the mag wouldn't stay in the gun without a really hard smack. And since this has never happened to me I was smacking them in like a normally do. I didn't figure out what was wrong until I got home. My usual shooting compradres did say that my reloads were getting a lot faster and smoother though, then I caught grief for not keeping them in the gun. Oh well, lesson learned.

[standles]

PJ.

I also have problems reloading while on the move. In a recent class with Matt Burkett he addressed this problem with me. He advocates always doing your reloading on the move if possible. No sense standing still when you could be moving to the enxt position while reloading. That being said as you and I know it is easier said than done.

Two things he showed me helped immensley with my skill. Hold the gun up in your "Face Box" to do the reload. This way it is in your sight plane and minimizes the movements required (time saved).

Put a dot of paint/marker/something on the inside edge of your magwell. This is your focus spot and it is the same everytime. You notjust looking at the area of the magwell but at this spot. The mag should stop briefly within ~1/2" of going in as a last verification before seating it. Once the nose of the mag is in, focus returns to position to hit then the target. Final seating of the mag and reestablishment of the grip happens as your readying for the first shot.

In movement the sooner the reload is accomplished the better. I have gotten considerably better at this. In his class I actually grabbed a mag and went for the magwell but ended up tossing it about 5 yds out in front of me when I missed the load.

Get some blue safety mags or dummy rounds and practice some sprinting in your back yard.

Later, Steven

Hope this helps, Steven