Strange markings on cases

[MissionaryMike]

So, I've given my first attempt at reloading .45 acp. I'm using 230 RN moly coated bullets from BBI. No matter what, when I plunk test into the barrel of my CZ 97b, the cartridge will plunk into the chamber, but it won't freely fall out unless I insert the round very slowly. Nonetheless, when I load these rounds into a magazine, then into the gun, and cycle the rounds by hand, the last round seems to get caught up, not allowing the gun to go into full battery.

Anyway, I'm concerned with what happens when I perform this hand cycling of the rounds through the gun. I hope the pics are good enough for you to see the small cuts or thin horizontal indentations created, presumably, by the chamber of the gun. These marks are about 1.5mm. Also, in the second picture, you'll notice vertical striations, basically the whole length of the case wall. I had to turn the cartridge slightly to the side to capture it in the picture b/c of the glare. Hopefully, you can see what I'm talking about. Good news is I'm not getting any rifling marks on the finish of the bullet.

What is causing these marks?

Thank you for your help,

MM

Edited August 26, 2015 by MissionaryMike

[TDA]

I'd start by putting an index mark on the rounds and stuffing them into the magazine with the mark up.

That way you will at least know where to start looking when you see where the dings are in relation to the index marks.

It looks like they may be only partially chambering and then being stuffed the rest of the way in with the spring.

I realize that it how it works, but it's not happening as smooth as it should.

The mark could be from the edge of the chamber/feed ramp biting into the case.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TDA

[TDA]

The OAL looks a bit long.

Did you try shortening them up a bit to see if that helps feeding?

[MissionaryMike]

My OAL is @ 1.250. I thought that was a pretty universal length for .45.

[TDA]

It depends on the bullet profile.

I have some 230 LRN that want to be 1.200", while others work at 1.230".

I was judging by the exposed shoulder. My LRN's need to have the shoulder flush with the case mouth to run in my 1911.

I start by calculating the max oal for a particular bullet in a particular barrel, and then work from there.

Edited August 26, 2015 by TDA

[wgj3]

I use a Lee Factory crimp die. Some are for them, some against. I think it might help with the marks toward the base of the cases.

I would absolutely think that the horizontal marks are from the top of the feed ramp/bottom of the chamber. As the round is pushed out of the magazine into the chamber, it can begin to contact the top of the chamber and get bound a touch against the top of the feedramp creating that mark. Shortening the OAL can help with that. Different magazine may present round at a better angle too.

[bfalcon00]

Yeah I would start with a shorter oal myself for all the reasons stated above.

[MissionaryMike]

My concern is that Lee's Modern Reloading says the min OAL for 230gr lead bullets using Ramshot Competition is 1.267. So my starting length is already over that.

Edited August 26, 2015 by MissionaryMike

[noylj]

The solution to most chambering problems is:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

There is no universal COL.

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of

the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".

• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.

• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.

• Never exceed the Maximum Load."

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare (crimp) just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

I prefer NOT to cycle live rounds through my guns.

[MissionaryMike]

Thanks, guys. Everything has been very helpful. I'm going to give a few of these suggestions a go tonight. We'll see how it goes.

[vixty]

Are you using a mag loader to load the magazine. I get marks similar to those when I use my Uplula magazine loader

[MissionaryMike]

Are you using a mag loader to load the magazine. I get marks similar to those when I use my Uplula magazine loader

Which markings, the vertical striations or the small notches?

[vixty]

The small notches.. it only happens when I load up mags to their capacity. if your just loading 10 rounds then I doubt a mag loader will leave a mark

[MissionaryMike]

I reloaded several more rounds last night. Neither of the marks that are occurring are from loading into the magazine. I'm pretty sure both marks are occurring during the feeding or ejecting process. I marked several of the rounds with a sharpie at the top position to get a reference point. The marks are occurring at the top of the cartridge, right where I am marking it.

[Steve RA]

Check the bottom of your extractor to see if the rim can easily get under it. I round off the bottom edge on the inside and also round off the bottom corner slightly to be sure the rim can easily slip under.

If you have a different brand of mag, give it a try as some release the back of the round earlier than others.

Also, try to load with only a thumbnail thickness of the shoulder above the mouth of the case.

Is the top of the chamber entrance - back edge of the hood slightly rounded ?? If the marks are at the top of the cartridge that could be a problem perhaps.

[vixty]

Have you tried to decrease your oal. It could be that the bullet it diving into the side of the chamber which could be what's causing vertical marks and the small horizontal ones when the nose first dives into the chamber wall

[ebg3]

Looks like it might be the bottom of the breech face causing the ding in the top of the round below the one that is being fed into the chamber. Is the bottom of the breech face sharp where it first contacts the rim to feed the next round? Try loading one round in the mag at a time and cycle it to see if the round has damage after you eject it.

[jcc7x7]

May be the case is hitting the edge of the ejection port coming out

???? are the marks there prior to reloading??

just a thought

[bfalcon00]

Are you using a mag loader to load the magazine. I get marks similar to those when I use my Uplula magazine loader

I didn't even think about a mag loader. Good thought.

[MissionaryMike]

No one else is getting these marks? I just cycled some dummy rounds made with brand new, never fired starline brass in my Accu Shadow, and I get the same notch and striation marks, just a bit smaller and fainter.

[bfalcon00]

No one else is getting these marks? I just cycled some dummy rounds made with brand new, never fired starline brass in my Accu Shadow, and I get the same notch and striation marks, just a bit smaller and fainter.

No to be honest the only time I've seen anything like it was on brass that bounced off something when ejected.

[TDA]

What happens when you actually shoot them rather than just hand cycling them?

[MissionaryMike]

What happens when you actually shoot them rather than just hand cycling them?

I'll find out tonight.