FortyOverUnder Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Hello all. New here, first post actually. I've searched and I couldn't find my particular issue. I've just started reloading only a few months back. I'm using an old Lee Turret press that I've updated to 4 hole. It's old, I'm in my 30s and I remember my dad buying it and never loading a round. I've been loading 9 and 40 since I built the bench and I've been having fun. Range brass, Berry's bullets, a few different powders for IDPA and USPSA major. They've all worked and I've not had any complaints. Then I got Bayou Bullets. 180gr. Flat nose. No grease ring. Same setup idea. This time, after I expand, the bullet falls in. Way too low. The Bayous measure at .401 just as the Berry's. The ones that do stay high enough, it seems as if my crimp is way too light. The shoulder measurement is at .421-.422, consistent. I have no issue going back to Berry's but I really wanted these Bayous to work. The die is a seat/crimp combo, by Lee. My 9mm setup I use a Redding Comp Die to seat and a FCD. Should I do the same for 40? What is making the bullets just fall in the case? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Welcome to the Forums. Bullets are not held tight in the case from the crimp. The resizing is what sets the brass to grip the bullet. The crimp is just to remove the flair( on semi auto) needed to seat the bullet without shaving it. Either the bullet has a too small diameter or you are not sizing correctly. I've not used an expander , but if the bullet drops after you expand it, you may have it over tightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron169 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sounds like you are expanding it too much! Are you having any problems with bullet set back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sounds like you are expanding it too much! Are you having any problems with bullet set back I was. I've since backed off on the expanding. Crimp remains the same measurement, but I can spin the bullet with my fingers. I can't setback with finger force though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 If you can spin the bullet with your fingers DO NOT SHOOT THOSE BULLETS! If you are using an FCD stop. The carbide ring at the bottom is resizing your bullets so you have no neck tension. Are you using a Lee sizing die? If so and it is in speck you should have plenty of neck tension to hold the bullet in place. So either your sizing die is not taking the case down small enough or your FCD is reducing the bullet diameter through the sizing ring. you should be able to find your problem between these 2 issues. If it's not either of these you have the wrong expander, I have seen the .41 magnum expander accidentally in the these die sets before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Do you have any Berry's left? Try one and see if it drops into the case. Or, any other bullet - make sure it's Not the Bullet. But, sounds like you're not sizing the case tight enough as everyone has mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Do you have any Berry's left? Try one and see if it drops into the case. Or, any other bullet - make sure it's Not the Bullet. But, sounds like you're not sizing the case tight enough as everyone has mentioned. That's the thing. Berry's measure the same as the Bayous. (.401) but it doesn't happen with the Berry's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 do it like you do with the 9mm. set the crimp to .420/419. use the seating die only to seat the bullet and slightly close the bell and then the FCD will do the rest. This is how i have loaded thousands of 9 and 40 without any problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Do you have any Berry's left? Berry's measure the same as the Bayous. I saw you mention that they both measure the same, but I'm wondering if you have any (even one) of the Berry's lying around. I'd try loading it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddKS Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It sounds like something is wrong with your sizing die setup. What is the ID on your sized cases before you expand the case mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hmm. Assuming your OAL is okay I would start with loading without primer and powder but with bullet and go around and start tightening the crimping die a 1/4 turn and see if you can still move the bullet and then adjust a 1/4 at a time. After you are on the money, pull that bullet and see what looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is what I've come up with so far. The ID of the case before sizing is .400-.401. I think I've been expanding too hard (from research) as I can actually see the bell. I've since backed way off and the bullet doesn't drop free. BUT, when I go to seat, some bullets still fall free. Those bullets I've been able to pull and mic. They have all been .401. I've taken the same case and put a Berry's in and I get a tight fit. No spin or movement. The conclusion I've come up with (which I'm still open to suggestion) is, EGW U die, separate seating and crip die. My current process is, decap with a universal, clean, bulge bust, size again, expand, seat/crimp. Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 What are you using for a sizing die prior to expanding. The Dillon .40 powder funnel/expander measures .3965" and after running through the Lee Bulge Buster a case will slide right over the powder funnel/expander with no resistance as the case ID measures about .4023". Then after sizing with a Dillon sizing die on my SDB the case will not slide over the powder funnel/expander.. You did not state what press or dies you were using, but it seems that the sizing die you are using just prior to expanding is not sizing to the proper size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You state you're using range brass, there can be some off brands of brass that are a bit thinner and will cause problems but having said that I doubt the that's the problem. I use Lee dies and have only had a similar problems when over expanding. You did not state but I assume you are now using a powder through expander to expand and charge the case at the same time. I don't know how you've adjusted you dies so if this is redundant, appologies: 1. Seating die: With no brass in the shell plate, raise the shell plate all the way up then adjust the sizing die to be finger tight aginast the shell plate then back on 1/4 turn. Or, follow the directions that caem with the die if you're not using Lee dies. 2. Expander die: With a sized peice of brass in the expander station, back the expander way out, raise the brass up then adjust the die down untill you have finger tight contact. Lower the brass then turn the expander down 1/4 to 1/2 turn and size the case. Test fit a bullet. The bullet base should just fit inside the flair so the when seated it won't shave the bullet. If not, aadjust it down until the base fits. You should not be able to press the bullet in any more wiht finger pressure. If the bullet "drops" in at this point you have an out of spec expander (.410 as others suggested) or your sizer is not getting the brass small enough. The flair may not be visable but you should be able to feel it and measure it. 3. Seating: Process may vary from brand to brand but the idea is similar, set the die body then adjus tthe seating stem. 4. Lee FCD: Adjust as you would the sizer but back out the seating stem or even remove it. However, if you are running all you 40 brass through a bulge buster you can us a standard crip die as you don't need to remove bulges with the FCD. With a properly adjusted dies you should be able to get good ammo from just about every brass and bullet combo. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks everyone. This all helps. It's sort of like fundamentals of reloading. I am using Lee dies on a Lee Turret press. My expander is a powder through expander. I measured the "sleeve"?, I don't know what you would call the inner part that actually expands the case. The bottom most part starts at .400 and ends at .411. Could this be my issue? I took 5 cases and measured before bulge busting. The ID was .404-.406. After running through, I got .402-.404. I've always thought that the bulge buster was enough. So I ran the same cases through a Lee sizer (which I didn't do for Berry's) and got .399-.401. My expander now puts my at .402 max, I didn't get any higher than that. I get limited time through the week to hang out in the shed where the reloading bench is, so my tests are random at best. I'm a weekend kinda guy. I haven't received my bullet puller yet so I can't give data on how the bullet looks after my latest crimp setting changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The bullet drops too far into the case. At the end of the cycle is your OAL off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 The bullet drops too far into the case. At the end of the cycle is your OAL off? The bullet would falls when I placed it before pushing through the seating die. What I've discovered is that the sizing die isn't up to par. EGW U-die is on its way and hopefully this helps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 The Bulge Buster is a finished round sizing system. It does not size the case what it does is ensure that the case is reduced to an overall Outside Diameter that will chamber in you gun. My BB takes the cases to an OD of .423". The case mouth of my loaded rounds is .422" so only the base of the case gets sized. The OD of my sized cases are .420" and the ID is .398" so belling is needed to bring the case mouth up to .402" which is above the .400" needed so that I can seat the bullet without shaving it. Because the case below the mouth is at .398" the bullet expands the case to .400" ID as the bullet is seated. This provides the tension needed to keep the bullet in place. Here is the math: Bullet - .400" + two case walls of .011" each = .422" which is the diameter of my case mouth after I "crimp" the bell back out of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItZallGooD Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Any pictures? I see that you are using a universal decapping die. After the bulge buster are you using the sizing die (the one with the decapping pin in it) to size the cases? The reason I ask is that when I am setting up the powder measure, I'll use a case that has been through the bulge buster but not sized and I will similar results to what you explaning. The bullets will basically just fall into the case. After the sizing die however, the loaded rounds look kind of like a snake that swallowed a golf ball. There are in there nice and tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortyOverUnder Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Update: Since the EGW undersized die, I have not had the issue. Now it's time to load some coated lead and have fun again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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