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Inserting magazine in holstered gun


TaterHead

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I see this rarely, but it does bug me. Shooter gets load and make ready, and the first thing is putting a mag in the gun before taking it out of the holster.

That bug anyone else?

Seen it once, thought it was strange, but it didn't bother me.

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Seen this also and as long as they don't cock the hammer with the mag inserted and the gun still in the holster, I'm ok with it. I think they are trying to get a practice draw with the gun loaded so the weight is the same. More common is to draw, take a sight picture, insert a mag, back in the holster (as long as it is within 8.1) and then draw/take a sight picture.

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8.4.1 When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer

Seeing how the handgun is not pointing downrange I'm going to say that is a no-no.

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That's a good point Vlad but he is not "loading, reloading, or unloading". Loading is not completed until ammo is inserted, firearm is in battery and ready to fire. I would say it is not ready to fire at this point so it doesn't fall in the 8.4.1. Besides, pointing down at that point is still in a safe direction.

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That's a good point Vlad but he is not "loading, reloading, or unloading". Loading is not completed until ammo is inserted, firearm is in battery and ready to fire. I would say it is not ready to fire at this point so it doesn't fall in the 8.4.1. Besides, pointing down at that point is still in a safe direction.

Loading ............................The insertion of ammunition into a firearm. Loading is completed when ammunition is inserted and firearm is in battery, (slide forward or cylinder closed), and ready to fire

It may not be completed until you put one in the chamber but ... how about those empty chamber starts? In any case I'd say the moment you start the loading process you are "loading", not when you finish it. Thus, the gun not pointing downrange as required by 8.4.1 is a no-no. I suppose you could get the RO to allow it by asking and then it would be an RO authorized direction, but really .. draw the gun and point it downrange.

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If we are talking USPSA rules:

Look in the glossary just above "loading"

Loaded Firearm ................A firearm having a live round, empty case or dummy round in the chamber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a magazine inserted in the firearm.

Now we have this to consider:

10.5.11 Holstering a loaded handgun, in any of the following conditions:
10.5.11.1 A single action self-loading pistol with the safety not applied.
10.5.11.2 A double action or selective action pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety not applied.

so, per the rules: not in 10.5.11.1/2 conditions: insert mag: OK, insert mag with 10.5.11.1/2 conditions: DQ.

ETA: I am not sure why anyone would want to do this but then, I normally shoot open and trying to seat a stuffed mag while the gun is in the holster is a sure way to entertain your squad after the beep...

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That brings up a good point, on a DA, they would be fine. On a SA, the SA safety can't be applied since it is not cocked. So if it can't be applied, is that really how it should be? I imagine this was not thought of when writing these sections. And I totally understand that, everything can't be thought of and put into the books.

I guess I was just thinking about a DA at first since it would be within 8.1, there are no issues.

Vlad did bring up a good point about 8.4.1 also so there could be a debate about what is downrange and getting authorization from the RO about safe direction. However, there is no DQ offense related to 8.4.1 that states the same wording so I can't see a DQ from it but it shouldn't be done.

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8.4.1 When loading, reloading or unloading during a course of fire, the competitor’s fingers must be visibly outside the trigger guard and the handgun must be pointed safely down range or in another safe direction authorized by a Range Officer

Is the load and make ready command considered during course of fire though? Wouldn't that be after the beep?

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Nope, course of fire starts at "make ready". For example if you drop your gun after make ready welcome to a DQ, if it fall out of the holster before no biggie. Finger in the trigger after make ready is the same deal, etc.

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Nope, course of fire starts at "make ready". For example if you drop your gun after make ready welcome to a DQ, if it fall out of the holster before no biggie. Finger in the trigger after make ready is the same deal, etc.

Yeah, that's it...

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So everyone with a holster canted rearward breaks the 180 during course of fire?

There is an exception, see this...

10.5.6 While facing downrange, allowing the muzzle of a loaded handgun to point uprange beyond a radius of 3 feet from a competitor’s feet while drawing or re-holstering.

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And that is a very interesting point as well, because if you have a canted holster and you load a mag in the holstered gun, you are now loading pointing the completely wrong way.

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Loading ............................

It may not be completed until you put one in the chamber but ... how about those empty chamber starts?

What empty chamber starts are you referring to?

8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a

competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded

or reloaded in a handgun. Written stage briefings may only stipulate

when the handgun is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are

required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2).

Unless the competitor forgets to rack the slide, the start position is either loaded or unloaded.

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Loading ............................

It may not be completed until you put one in the chamber but ... how about those empty chamber starts?

What empty chamber starts are you referring to?

8.1.4 Unless complying with a Division requirement (see Appendix D), a

competitor must not be restricted on the number of rounds to be loaded

or reloaded in a handgun. Written stage briefings may only stipulate

when the handgun is to be loaded or when mandatory reloads are

required (when permitted under Rules 1.1.5.1 and 1.1.5.2).

Unless the competitor forgets to rack the slide, the start position is either loaded or unloaded.

Eh? Read 8.1.3. I think 8.1.4 means I can't stipulate 8 rd in a mag in production, not the condition of your chamber.

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