2015 Benelli Rockcastle Tactical Shotgun Match

[MarkCO]

Looking at the rules speadsheet for standard, "initial load prior to start" - "Max of 9 rounds loaded" .... So nothing about them being in the tube.

SO I AM ASSUMING YOU CAN PUT ONE ON THE LIFTER ON A EMPTY CHAMBER START. UNLESS stated in the stage brief???

On OPTION 2 start, Can you put one on the lifter?

• 8.1.1.2 Loaded (Option 2): magazine filled and fitted (if applicable), chamber(s) empty and the action closed.

For now, I would not assume you can put a round on the lifter and be in compliance with the start conditions. If that changes and I have time to post it here, I will.

In any event, the stage ROs will have clear direction on the allowable start conditions.

We did at the last two Ipsc Pan Am Championships.

And were you starting with 8 or 9 allowed in the gun?

[Jesse Tischauser]

Looking at the rules speadsheet for standard, "initial load prior to start" - "Max of 9 rounds loaded" .... So nothing about them being in the tube.

SO I AM ASSUMING YOU CAN PUT ONE ON THE LIFTER ON A EMPTY CHAMBER START. UNLESS stated in the stage brief???

On OPTION 2 start, Can you put one on the lifter?

• 8.1.1.2 Loaded (Option 2): magazine filled and fitted (if applicable), chamber(s) empty and the action closed.

For now, I would not assume you can put a round on the lifter and be in compliance with the start conditions. If that changes and I have time to post it here, I will.

In any event, the stage ROs will have clear direction on the allowable start conditions.

We did at the last two Ipsc Pan Am Championships.

And were you starting with 8 or 9 allowed in the gun?

I can't say for certain but the whole 9 in the gun with the empty chamber only started in 3-gun in the last year or two. So I would venture to guess we started 8 in the gun/empty chamber.

[sarpau]

I think IPSC rules are pretty clear.

The divisions have maximum start capacities...full stop. That's all we need to know.

Option 2 states chamber empty, action closed and magazine full. It gives no other guidance as to what is prohibited, therefore anything else is allowed. Lifter, matchsaver, side saddle, balancing one on the vent rib of your barrel... have at it.

You can't have ammo in your hands at the start, but otherwise its a freestyle sport.

This is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I think IPSC rules are pretty clear.

The divisions have maximum start capacities...full stop. That's all we need to know.

Option 2 states chamber empty, action closed and magazine full. It gives no other guidance as to what is prohibited, therefore anything else is allowed. Lifter, matchsaver, side saddle, balancing one on the vent rib of your barrel... have at it.

You can't have ammo in your hands at the start, but otherwise its a freestyle sport.

This is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.

^^^this^^^

[Jesse Tischauser]

I just ordered a case of shotgun shells and some buckshot from Gamaliel Shooting Sports. It is pretty sweet! I was going to order ammo for ProAm too but they don't carry what I like for pistol/rifle so I guess I'll need to ship it. Wish they had Fiocchi low recoil slugs and enough buckshot for the whole shotgun match but that was so much easier then shipping my own ammo. Huge thanks guys!

Now hopefully we aren't shooting those anti-spin aka anti-fall Rockcastle shotgun plates or the case of 1145's I ordered won't see much action.

[MarkCO]

I think IPSC rules are pretty clear.

The divisions have maximum start capacities...full stop. That's all we need to know.

Option 2 states chamber empty, action closed and magazine full. It gives no other guidance as to what is prohibited, therefore anything else is allowed. Lifter, matchsaver, side saddle, balancing one on the vent rib of your barrel... have at it.

You can't have ammo in your hands at the start, but otherwise its a freestyle sport.

This is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.

Which, as Jesse said, it why many do not like IPSC shotgun rules. If you want to go look in the Global village and the rules interpretations, you will see that some of your interpretations are incorrect. I will run the match within the rules regardless of whether I like them or not.

[MarkCO]

I just ordered a case of shotgun shells and some buckshot from Gamaliel Shooting Sports. It is pretty sweet! I was going to order ammo for ProAm too but they don't carry what I like for pistol/rifle so I guess I'll need to ship it. Wish they had Fiocchi low recoil slugs and enough buckshot for the whole shotgun match but that was so much easier then shipping my own ammo. Huge thanks guys!

Now hopefully we aren't shooting those anti-spin aka anti-fall Rockcastle shotgun plates or the case of 1145's I ordered won't see much action.

All of the steel is coming from FNH/Larry Houck as part of their sponsorship of the match, so all IPSC compliant steel, which is very nice.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I just ordered a case of shotgun shells and some buckshot from Gamaliel Shooting Sports. It is pretty sweet! I was going to order ammo for ProAm too but they don't carry what I like for pistol/rifle so I guess I'll need to ship it. Wish they had Fiocchi low recoil slugs and enough buckshot for the whole shotgun match but that was so much easier then shipping my own ammo. Huge thanks guys!

Now hopefully we aren't shooting those anti-spin aka anti-fall Rockcastle shotgun plates or the case of 1145's I ordered won't see much action.

All of the steel is coming from FNH/Larry Houck as part of their sponsorship of the match, so all IPSC compliant steel, which is very nice.

AMEN!!!

[sarpau]

....If you want to go look in the Global village and the rules interpretations, you will see that some of your interpretations are incorrect. I will run the match within the rules regardless of whether I like them or not.

I don't think anyone expects anything less than a match run in accordance with the current rules.

I've been on Global Village more than I care to, trying to find info for the world shoot.

I've read your thread about this very topic.

The fact remains that in the absence of a rule stating that a shell can not be placed on the lifter for Option 2 start, it is allowed.

And has been common practice at every IPSC shotgun match I have attended from Level 1 to 4 in size, and every match I have run.

And I believe will be the case at the world shoot. If an RO tries to enforce no shell on the lifter there, I bet it will be quickly dealt with in arbitration

Unfortunately, I had to pull out of this match a couple days ago so whatever you guys end up doing is irrelevant to me at this point, but hope it all goes well.

This will be my first year missing this match.

[MarkCO]

Yeah, I really don't care one way or the other. But I am trying to get an IPSC ruling through a few different channels so that we can run it the right way, whatever that is.

Sorry you can't make it...your body may thank you.

[MarkCO]

So after many meanderings, emails, forum post reviews etc, here is where I have arrived:

Option 2 start condition: Outlaw, Standard and Standard manual will be 9 rounds allowed, chamber empty. If you want one on the lifter, fine. Open will be 10 rounds in box magazines and 14 in fixed magazines.

That appears to be consistent with how IPSC has run since publishing the 2012 rulebook and there have been no interpretations changing such after the 2015 rulebook was published. The explanation of Divisions on IPSC.org was in concert with the 2009 rulebook, however they have failed to update it since the 2012 rulebook was published.

If someone has an actual ruling from IPSC, which Vince Pinto does not think exists, then please send to me. From all angles, I think 30 hours on one rule is enough to move one.

[CJW]

Sounds reasonable to me, but I don't do IPSC so prepping for World Shoot is not high on my priority list.

I have found it odd in the past that a "Benelli" sponsored shotgun match disallowed rounds on the carrier for empty chamber starts—it always seemed odd to me to have a rule that particularly penalized the sponsoring company's own shotguns!

[Petshopshooter]

How about the empty gun starts? Can we have a round waiting in front of the port clipped in one of those match saving devices?

[MarkCO]

Sounds reasonable to me, but I don't do IPSC so prepping for World Shoot is not high on my priority list.

I have found it odd in the past that a "Benelli" sponsored shotgun match disallowed rounds on the carrier for empty chamber starts—it always seemed odd to me to have a rule that particularly penalized the sponsoring company's own shotguns!

Benelli, nor I, write the rulesets. Besides, some may just call that leveling the playing field.

[MarkCO]

How about the empty gun starts? Can we have a round waiting in front of the port clipped in one of those match saving devices?

The rules do not prevent that.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Any chance I can rent a golf cart for the weekend? I think the wife is going to go tour the caves during the day.

[MarkCO]

Any chance I can rent a golf cart for the weekend? I think the wife is going to go tour the caves during the day.

Might want to call Rockcastle and check. I have no idea.

As for stages, you will shoot a zone each half day. I am sure you could bum a ride from someone a few times. My wife and 11 year old are going to tour the caves as well.

[Airedale]

The info email sent recently states: "you must have your caddies and shotgun with you for equipment check at check in"

Is this required for the non-IPSC outlaw division shooters?

[MarkCO]

The info email sent recently states: "you must have your caddies and shotgun with you for equipment check at check in"

Is this required for the non-IPSC outlaw division shooters?

Just the shotgun for outlaw.

[Airedale]

Excellent, thanks

[cheryl]

Does the 1320mm length apply to outlaw division?

[Jesse Tischauser]

Does the 1320mm length apply to outlaw division?

Good question! My Benelli M2 with a 12 round Nordic tube didn't fit the box last time. I had the mid size butt pad and needed the small one to fit. Since I didn't have it with me I had to use an 11rd tube.

I would bet money that a 12rd Stoeger won't make it because that stick is so long. Heck an 11rd M3000 might not fit either.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[believeraz]

Does the 1320mm length apply to outlaw division?

Good question! My Benelli M2 with a 12 round Nordic tube didn't fit the box last time. I had the mid size butt pad and needed the small one to fit. Since I didn't have it with me I had to use an 11rd tube.

I would bet money that a 12rd Stoeger won't make it because that stick is so long. Heck an 11rd M3000 might not fit either.

Well my 10 round Stoeger should be good to go, then. Considering this is my first shotgun - only match, it's already been a bit of a learning experience.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[MarkCO]

Does the 1320mm length apply to outlaw division?

No.

[kurtm]

It doesn't apply to IPSC Standard divisions either.