benos Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Have you noticed any change in POI if you have the dust cover resting on anything? Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Atlanta Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 re: rollover prone That is fine if all you are trying to do is shoot under an obstacle, but the more accurate shooting position would be to place the base pad on the ground and turn your head to align the sights..... Sorry if I'm drifting the thread too far, but since we used rollover prone to shoot over low grass and accurately out to 200 meters and beyond, I wondered to myself if we weren't talking about different things, or maybe I had named it wrong. Well, after a little searching, I find what we did is different from the rollover prone you see used to shoot long guns with high cap magazines (kind of looks like sideways fetal position) What I was talking about looks more like a long range rifle position, legs angled a bit to the side, body slightly canted, cheek on arm between bicep and shoulder. I first saw it in an article about antelope hunting and it was touted as being better than flat prone since it supported your head and raised your heart off the ground (which would be beating wildly as you eyed that Boone & Crockett buck). I later saw it well illustrated in Chuck Taylor's classic Combat Handgunning , page 107 (btw, it looks like he has the butt of his 1911 grounded, hard to tell since it has no magwell or extended mag so his hands completely cover the grip). He calls it Chapman rollover prone. Whatever the origin, it was useful when I was shooting in cow pastures and had to get over the short grass. and by slightly varying the amount of rollover I could adjust head and gun height to get on the further targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 re: rollover prone That is fine if all you are trying to do is shoot under an obstacle, but the more accurate shooting position would be to place the base pad on the ground and turn your head to align the sights..... Sorry if I'm drifting the thread too far, but since we used rollover prone to shoot over low grass and accurately out to 200 meters and beyond, I wondered to myself if we weren't talking about different things, or maybe I had named it wrong. Well, after a little searching, I find what we did is different from the rollover prone you see used to shoot long guns with high cap magazines (kind of looks like sideways fetal position) What I was talking about looks more like a long range rifle position, legs angled a bit to the side, body slightly canted, cheek on arm between bicep and shoulder. I first saw it in an article about antelope hunting and it was touted as being better than flat prone since it supported your head and raised your heart off the ground (which would be beating wildly as you eyed that Boone & Crockett buck). I later saw it well illustrated in Chuck Taylor's classic Combat Handgunning , page 107 (btw, it looks like he has the butt of his 1911 grounded, hard to tell since it has no magwell or extended mag so his hands completely cover the grip). He calls it Chapman rollover prone. Whatever the origin, it was useful when I was shooting in cow pastures and had to get over the short grass. and by slightly varying the amount of rollover I could adjust head and gun height to get on the further targets. Yeah, I mis-understood you.....sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 http://blog.topspecus.com/pistol-shooting-tips/ I like Massad Ayoob's drill... I used to do something similar, at 15 yards. Shoot 6 shots, with the goal being to have every bullet hole touching. The gun has to be very accurate - shoot 2" or under groups at 50 yards - to do this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I always tell people that I never REALLY knew how to shoot (pistol or anything else) until I took an Appleseed class. Before then, I was just mashing the trigger and hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vactor Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 how do you guys even see that x at 25 yards ???? much less 50??? and i wear glasses ... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That's a great article. I really like the variety of drills they use in there, thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullMetalJacket Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I always tell people that I never REALLY knew how to shoot (pistol or anything else) until I took an Appleseed class. Before then, I was just mashing the trigger and hoping for the best. They do a pistol seed class as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfr716 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think the difference between a rifle and a a pistol in terms of barrel harmonics is length. A 20 inch rifle barrel whips far less than a 28 inch barrel and Is therfore less susceptible to the effects of pressure points making the movement less repeatable and changing POI. Now go to a 4 inch pistol barrel and whip is pretty well gone. Not saying it doesn't have an effect but at the ranges one generally shoots a pistol I can't imagine the effect being overly dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The variety of tips is terrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSLMT Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I found Brian's article very helpful on resting the mag on the bench. I have been using bags but not results I wanted till I tried this method. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emm66 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 how do you guys even see that x at 25 yards ???? much less 50??? and i wear glasses ... :( Seriously. This is my exact thought. The front sight covers pretty much the whole target at 50 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I know this is a not a recent thread, but I wanted to add a couple of variations for your consideration. Here is the sequence I used to become pretty good at precision shooting. 1. Two handed from a bench rest like BE described. 50 yards minimum. 2. Two handed from a forearm rest without the gun touching anything, just resting forearms on the rest, with one's wrists and gun forward of the rest. The rest takes all the movement away except what you induce with breathing and pulse rate and ... trigger pull. With a red dot sight, I've shot out to 200 yards this way, only to 100 with open sights and not recently. 3. Single hand from a forearm rest without the gun touching anything, just resting one forarm on the rest. This is a bullseye type grip but with much more stability. However, it WILL result in large groups IF you can't seem to pull the trigger without moving the gun. That is the value of shooting from a rest but without any constraint on the gun as one pulls the trigger. I know most of the folks here are not bullseye shooters. One can't do well in bullseye without being able to pull the trigger without moving the gun. Bullseye practice will help you with the run and gun disciplines as will shooting from a rest. If you are interested in watching some videos of 100-200 yards, two handed grip from a bench, take a look at these... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7GbOFIiTV0xt-yUxqYvFX6tek_pEmLes Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 One can't do well in bullseye without being able to pull the trigger without moving the gun. For any type of shooting other than when the gun isn't completely stopping before the shot breaks, that is HUGE. Especially in slow-fire competition if you are nervous / the gun is shaking... If you can just release the trigger with out moving the gun you can still shoot surprisingly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Here is a video demonstrating 18 good shots and 2 where I still moved the gun when pulling the trigger. These are NOT from a rest, this is single hand, standing, 25 yards, bullseye timed fire. But this also demonstrates what one can learn to do, starting with the fundamental drills from a rest that BE detailed above. https://youtu.be/RxB9sNLJcIY One of these days, I'll shoot 60 good shots in a row, pulling the trigger without moving the gun! I also went two clicks up on the Burris FF 3 sight after this video. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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