Best fix for anticipating recoil?

[vnboileau]

Long story short, I'm trying to learn to shoot a pistol...

I went to the range a few days ago and shot groups at 7 yards, focusing on seeing the front sight, and working on my grip, stance and trigger pull.

I noticed that I was pulling some shots low and left. One of ROs said that he was an instructor, and watched me dry fire and shoot a few shots. He made the observation that I was gripping the pistol much too tightly (my knuckles were white), getting too much of my finger on the trigger (I have fairly big hands), and I was jerking/jumping on the trigger (presumably anticipating the bang).

Since then, I've been reading everything I can find for advice on fixing this. Other than dry firing, the suggestions seem to be all over the map. One person says do the ball and dummy drill, the next person says don't, the next says put a dime on the front sight, etc.

So, are there one or two accepted fixes for anticipating recoil, jerking the trigger?

Edited March 2, 2015 by vnboileau

[Pat Miles]

Ball and dummy loads until you don't pull down and left, start slow and work your speed up. Then practice, practice, practice.

[MAC702]

Ball-and-dummy loadings don't "fix" anything. They only test to see if it's been fixed yet.

Dry-firing, dry-firing, dry-firing is how to fix it.

Then, when you shoot live ammo, you bring in the mental discipline of the dry-firing. The more dry-firing you do, the easier this will be.

[racerba]

Unfortunately, you will get as many suggestions here too...

Dry firing is a big help...but doesn't help if you are anticipating the recoil...you have to get used to it and then it becomes second nature...

What has helped me and a few others I know:

During live fire, start slow...as you are pulling the trigger back slowly, keep saying to yourself, "it's not going off"..."it's not going off"...until it does...when it does, it should be a surprise...then you can speed up the process once you get used to the recoil and it doesn't bother you...

And don't do the dime on the front sight when live firing...you'll wind up with a dime size bruise on your forehead...

Edited March 2, 2015 by racerba

[lizz]

Flinch? I'm a flincher. Flinched me a no shoot this weekend. Someone told me the best way to get rid of the flinch was to shoot it out of you. That's alot of rounds but it's all I know.

[touji]

Hi, my name is Chris and I'm a flincher.

I've been shooting for the past 2 years, but through those 2 years, I only went to the range shooting a .22lr pistol maybe 3 times a year. This year, I'm shooting a .45 and I've been to the range about 5 times since the begining of February working on my fundamental, etc, so take this with a grain of salt as I'm still learning.

After hours of dryfiring, I've gotten to a point where I can pull the trigger and keep my sights relatively still, but when I live fire, I was still shooting low and left, and flinching like crazy. One thing that I noiced while I was shooting real ammo was that my trigger finger wasn't doing what it's been training to do. I found myself pulling the trigger back with what felt like 300% more force durinig live fire than with dry fire. I was forgetting what the clean break on my 1911 should feel like and was pulling the trigger back as hard as I could, which inadvertently created a reflex to flinch. This made my flinch even worse.

The problem has gotten a lot better, as I am now focusing on remembering how much pressure it takes to break the trigger. My road to recovery is well under way and I've already seen a lot of improvement in my shooting. YMMV.

[vnboileau]

Ball-and-dummy loadings don't "fix" anything. They only test to see if it's been fixed yet.

That's sort of what I was thinking. And I know I'm doing it. I can feel it, see it in the sights, and on the target.

[ATLDave]

I'm a flincher by nature. And I had a bad flinch a few years ago. The best advice came from this very forum, and is premised on the notion that the flinch begins (and ends) with the eyes.

Go to the range with the softest-recoiling gun you've got - a .22lr is ideal. Don't put up a target. Just aim at the backstop and watch the gun go off as you pull the trigger. Don't worry about hitting anything in particular, so long as the bullets are going someplace safe. Just watch the gun go off. See how much you can see. Can you see the slide operate? Can you see the brass eject? Can you see the muzzle flash? If you can't, you're flinching with your eyes. Keep shooting and keep watching. You're not trying to do anything but observe.

Once you start seeing things happening while the gun is going off and recoiling, direct your attention to the front sight. See if you can watch it jump/rise in recoil when the gun goes off. See if you can see the muzzle flash at the same time. Keep trying until you can watch the front sight jump up and settle back down. No goals except to see.

Once you can see the front sight rise in recoil - and not before! - you can hang a target. Use a big one. Aim at the middle. If you hit it, great... as long as you see the front sight. Shoot a bit this way. If you start losing the front sight or stop seeing the gun go off, take the target down.

Eventually, you'll notice that you're shooting fairly compact groups without that low-left trail that the flinch induces. When you get to that point, you can start aiming small, focusing on a careful trigger pull, etc. But as long as you aren't flinching with your eyes, you are unlikely to mechanically flinch. Just keep seeing and the flinch will go away.

Eventually, move up in power if that's your goal. You may have to repeat the process as you move from .22lr to 9mm, or from 9mm to .40 major. Or from .38 special to .44 magnum. The key is to see. As long as you can see the gun going off, your brain will pretty quickly correct out the flinch.

That's the advice I got. It has worked for me. If I don't shoot for several weeks, sometimes I have to repeat parts of this process, though it's faster every time. The first time through, you might spend 500 or 1,000 rounds of ammo.

[Robco]

Good for you learning to shoot pistols!

From your description and post, I think there are multiple things going on. Jumping on the trigger and thus jerking it will result in the low-left hits for right handed shooters. This plagues most shooters = we call it Trigger Control. It is a training issue and is not related to flinching although BOTH errors could be occurring at the same time and compounding the effect. Jumping on and jerking a trigger is usually due to lack of skill in executing a shot = specifically trying to quickly fire the shot when the sights line up, before they move off the target again in the normal oscillations that always occur in a "Hold."

A flinch is a perfectly normal and involuntary reaction to an explosion going off right in front of your face! You may also be closing your eyes when this happens too. A flinch comes from the shoulders and arms, not the trigger finger and probably not the hands although they may be involved.

You need to always keep your eye/eyes open while shooting, continuously - not even a momentary blink. Have a friend watch you, from a safe angle off to your side while live firing to see if you are blinking. Or video yourself.

So, not to make this sound complicated, but shooting is a complex process and not a natural one for us at first.

You will need to train yourself both not to flinch or blink and also to properly operate the trigger. Two different and distinct skills.

Good luck and welcome to pistol shooting!

[Dwight Stearns]

The struggle to master recoil anticipation will be a lifetime journey. You need to keep in mind that you can't fix what you can't see. You need to be able to see the front sight all through the firing process. If you blink when you shoot you can't see the front sight move just before the gun goes off. Also keep on mind that something that the conscious mind sees and determines is wrong, the subconscious begins to try to correct. If you see the front sight dip right before the shot, the subconscious will start working to delay that push you make with the muscles needed to counteract the recoil. You start turning the pre ignition push into a post ignition push.

Now, I know this is just semantics but 99.999 percent of active shooters don't flinch. I'm 58 years old and in working with active shooters have only witnessed actual flinching a hand full of times. It's not a flinch. It's recoil anticipation. Big difference.

[emjei]

Use double ear protection....that will diminish the reaction to an explosion in front of your face......it also helps with the flinch

Mj

Edited March 2, 2015 by emjei

[mgardner]

I'm thinking that you need to shoot enough to become desensitized to it. Once your subconscious realizes that the noise and kick won't hurt you it'll get better. Just like the pounding you get learning to fight. The first time you get hit it's a shock but when you survive it you learn not to fear it and eventually you're desensitized to it and can keep your head up and eyes open.

[vnboileau]

I'm going to start dry firing daily. Although just from last night I'm finding it frustrating to try and pull the trigger *straight* back without making the sights move. Ugh.

I'll also take the 22lr to the range and work on the other ideas people suggested.

Thanks for all the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

[Dwight Stearns]

I'm going to start dry firing daily. Although just from last night I'm finding it frustrating to try and pull the trigger *straight* back without making the sights move. Ugh.

I'll also take the 22lr to the range and work on the other ideas people suggested.

Thanks for all the help and I'll let you know how it goes.

The sights moving due to the mechanics of pressing the trigger is an animal of a different color. It sounds like you may have an issue of pulling the trigger with all your fingers. The trigger finger has to work independently of the others. Try slightly relaxing your shooting hand while squeezing a little harder with your support hand. Don't squeeze so hard that you shake though. You say you have large hands so let's use that large support hand to make the gun "heavier".

[Nimitz]

Ben Stoeger's 'white wall' drill is one of the best dry fire drills to learn the mechanics of proper trigger control. until you learn acceptable trigger control there is not a lot of value in working on other techniques ...

the fundamentals of being able to shoot a pistol accuractly are: trigger control, proper grip & sight management ... and of those, trigger control is more important then the other 2 combined ....

Spend whatever effort is needed to master this now or pay the price for the rest of the time you shoot a pistol ....

[Vlad]

The other thing is that anticipating recoil can never be fixed, you will always know it is coming. How you deal with it its important, but you don't want to 'fix' anticipating it, you want to fix how you deal with it.

I know it sounds a bit stupid, but how you think of it changes how you deal with it. Recoil WILL come if you press the trigger, so you stiffen your wrists and you keep your eyes open so you can see the sights move because you can't know the gun is ready to go again unless you watched the sights return on target.

Recoil is not your enemy, it is the stuff that makes the gun work so love it and accept it and work with it, not against it.

[Swanny10]

There are a lot better shooters on here than I and a lot of useful info in this thread but I am inclined to agree that more often than not blinking, flinching, jerking, etc has an inverse relationship with rounds fired. The more you shoot the less it happens. I am perfectly aware of the idea that practice DOES NOT make perfect-PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect. However if it is really the explosion happening in your hands that is causing the problem then ultimately you are going to have to get used to explosions happening. It's not a fast solution or a cheap one. But sometimes (often times) there is no substitute for rounds down range.

[grapemeister]

I agree with what that guy said...for some of us, which probably is many of us, it takes a lot of rounds down range to break it. Recognizing it is the 1st big step, and then patience with lots of practice.

I don't care what those other guys said...a flinch is a flinch is a flinch and it is very common. It doesn't matter how hard you pull the trigger, side ways, upside down, or standing on your head. Everything can be perfect but a flinch can still happen. It's all in your head. Bottom line: it's all about not disturbing the sights when you pull the trigger.

It took me over a year to conquer my flinch, and a ton of ammo, but it may only take you a week. And don't be surprised if it come back on occasion. Mine comes back, but I've learned to deal with it, and keep on shooting.

There is no magic pill. Be patient, practice, and it'll get better.

[newboy]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

[Dwight Stearns]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

[Robco]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

I agree that recoil anticipation is NOT a flinch. Yes, it will produce a downward movement of the pistol, as evidenced even by good shooters when they unexpectedly run dry and drop hammer on an empty chamber or dummy round. But this is not a fault really. And is not a flinch. It is a trained response. Just wanted to make that point and differentiate flinch from recoil anticipation.

[motosapiens]

There are a lot better shooters on here than I and a lot of useful info in this thread but I am inclined to agree that more often than not blinking, flinching, jerking, etc has an inverse relationship with rounds fired. The more you shoot the less it happens. I am perfectly aware of the idea that practice DOES NOT make perfect-PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect. However if it is really the explosion happening in your hands that is causing the problem then ultimately you are going to have to get used to explosions happening. It's not a fast solution or a cheap one. But sometimes (often times) there is no substitute for rounds down range.

This has been my experience as well. The first year or so I was shooting I would do a 20-30 round warmup. 10 shots at 2 seconds per shot, then 10 at 1 second per shot, then 10 at .5 sec/shot, just focusing on the front sight. I still sometimes blink on the first shot of a stage or match, but the flinch only shows up WHO (due to my slacking off that skill in practice).

I find in bill drills I am pretty easily able to avoid blinking. On normal targets, the more I look for the sight before breaking the 2nd shot, the less I blink.

the hardest for me is slow fire.

Edited March 4, 2015 by motosapiens

[Dwight Stearns]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

I agree that recoil anticipation is NOT a flinch. Yes, it will produce a downward movement of the pistol, as evidenced even by good shooters when they unexpectedly run dry and drop hammer on an empty chamber or dummy round. But this is not a fault really. And is not a flinch. It is a trained response. Just wanted to make that point and differentiate flinch from recoil anticipation.

+1 on this. The only time the push is a fault is when it is before ignition. Then it is the classic low left shot for a right handed shooter.

[Robco]

Recoil doesn't hurt. It is the noise that initiates the flinch. Double up on ear pro.

Until we reach the heavy caliber pistols this is true. This noise and recoil sensitivity is the only true flinch when it comes to pre ignition push. Most active shooters work though this fairly quickly. What we are left with is the shooter subconsciously tries to compensate for recoil that hasn't happened yet. Ray Chapman called that being a Now shooter. This is why a shooter can do just fine when shooting slow but anticipates when they try to shoot faster. Shooting faster changes the timing of the trigger pull/ignition/recoil cycle. The conscious mind has to see and recognize the sight movement before the subconscious can begin to correct it. So, noise/recoil sensitivity=flinch. Recoil anticipation=not a flinch.

I agree that recoil anticipation is NOT a flinch. Yes, it will produce a downward movement of the pistol, as evidenced even by good shooters when they unexpectedly run dry and drop hammer on an empty chamber or dummy round. But this is not a fault really. And is not a flinch. It is a trained response. Just wanted to make that point and differentiate flinch from recoil anticipation.

+1 on this. The only time the push is a fault is when it is before ignition. Then it is the classic low left shot for a right handed shooter.

exactly right

[Robco]

There are a lot better shooters on here than I and a lot of useful info in this thread but I am inclined to agree that more often than not blinking, flinching, jerking, etc has an inverse relationship with rounds fired. The more you shoot the less it happens. I am perfectly aware of the idea that practice DOES NOT make perfect-PERFECT PRACTICE makes perfect. However if it is really the explosion happening in your hands that is causing the problem then ultimately you are going to have to get used to explosions happening. It's not a fast solution or a cheap one. But sometimes (often times) there is no substitute for rounds down range.

This has been my experience as well. The first year or so I was shooting I would do a 20-30 round warmup. 10 shots at 2 seconds per shot, then 10 at 1 second per shot, then 10 at .5 sec/shot, just focusing on the front sight. I still sometimes blink on the first shot of a stage or match, but the flinch only shows up WHO (due to my slacking off that skill in practice).

I find in bill drills I am pretty easily able to avoid blinking. On normal targets, the more I look for the sight before breaking the 2nd shot, the less I blink.

the hardest for me is slow fire.

I have gone thru periods in my shooting, even in the last 3 months, where I catch myself blinking while shooting. Just some temporary sensitivity or mindset, etc that comes on me for some reason, momentarily. Probably some lack of focus or concentration on the shooting, so the break is a "surprise" to me at that moment. I end it instantly because it is not a habit of mine, but it does happen occasionally. This comports with what you said, motosapiens, that it happens more when you slow fire, because with slow shooting trigger control, the break usually is MORE of a surprise, as in rifle shooting.

I would say it is not only a natural, but even an intelligent automatic reflex response to such violence in front of our eyes - to protect our eyes - an instinctual survival behavior. So we all just have to learn to deal with it, meaning figure out how to overcome closing the eyes at all, ever, while shooting, because it is really not an option for competitive shooters (cannot call a shot if you don't see the sights at break).