Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I was at the practice range yesterday asked the best shooter in the area to check out the trigger job on my XDM 5.25. He said it was pretty good for a striker fire pistol and went and got his CZ 75. Not sure exactly what version it was except it doesn't have the firing pin block. I didn't get a chance to fire it, but pulling the trigger a few times changed my shooting life forever. I've put at least 500 rounds a week through my XDM, and I can't tell you how much time and money I've put into trying to figure out how to shoot accurate at high speed. I should be farther along than I am now.Afterwards I went back to my practice session, but I just couldn't continue. He was tearing down stages after a steel match so I ambushed him when he came back to his car and asked him to tell me exactly how to get a gun with that trigger. He gave me the whole speech about how it may not be the gun, and that we need to get together and do some tests, etc, etc. I really would like to try it out first, but with my current gun I have to concentrate on presetting my trigger between shots, aiming high and to the right when shooting fast...... It's just too much for my peanut sized brain to handle while I'm running around reloading my mag every ten rounds and not break the 180. I'm can't imagine having a gun that you simply put pressure on the trigger and it goes bang wouldn't be a huge improvement.The list price here http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-shadow-target-ii-9mm-cz-custom/is $1638.00. My friend said he didn't want to wait and did the work himself, but I'm leaning toward having someone else do the work. It's a lot of money. I would appreciate your comments on how I should move forward. What else would I need. I'm thinking the gun, 6 mags, and the holster. I use the Ghost 360 pouches.Thanks. Edited February 23, 2015 by Just4FunLP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) You can always buy the CZ SPO1 Shadow (fixed rear sight ) and save some BUT don't forget.......its the Indian more than the arrow http://czcustom.com/shadowcustom2014blk.aspx Mj Edited February 23, 2015 by emjei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboadway Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 aiming high and to the right when shooting fast...... This is where you may want to focus. You should see your sights on target for every shot (assuming your gun is sighted in properly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 You are exactly right, but > 30,000 rounds. I see the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 aiming high and to the right when shooting fast The best shooter in the club told you this?!? There is absolutely to reason you can't learn to pull the trigger at any speed without disrupting the sights. Is it possible to shoot a striker fired gun well? You bet. Will you have more fun, confidence, learn faster with a CZ? Absolutely! Here's what I think you should do right now: Buy this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209440&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 Do this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191773 Dryfire, until the sights don't move when the hammer goes click (this isn't purgatory, half hour a day for a week should do it). Then get back in the match and enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJGary Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Cajun Gun Works has Shadows $1375 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm at work and haven't had a chance to look at your links... But to clarify: he didn't tell me to shoot like this. He want's to have a troubleshooting session to pinpoint the root cause of my issues. There's probably more than one. I just listed some of the techniques I've been using to compensate. There's more that I haven't listed. Don't get me wrong. I love my XDM, and other than the mag getting caught in the well, I'd do anything to keep using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I was gearing up to shoot M&P's in production, I had about a week of dry fire and one live fire practice when a friend showed me a Shadow. It took me about 30 seconds to realize it was a far superior gun for USPSA. A CZ is no substitute for practice, but it is a great gun you will enjoy shooting. You won't need to compensate on sight alignment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It took me about a year to really get the feel of driving a striker fired pistol to the point where my match failings were my own rather than me not knowing how to drive the gun. I really like my Glock 34 Gen 4 for USPSA now. And you saw me shoot at the Florida Open so consider the source here... You just have to watch Randi Rogers or Julie Golob to see how a striker fired pistol can be utilized very effectively for USPSA. But, yeah, I had my own "chorus of angels" moment at my home club when they found out I had never shot a 1911 pistol. I found myself putting a mag through one in the middle of a Steel Challenge match after my squad completed a stage because I think they collectively thought it was completely unacceptable that I had never shot one and that had to come to a end immediately. I now have my own 1911 and I'll be bringing into action at A6, but I'll still shoot my Glock in USPSA now and again because it's just fun to shoot (and shooting the Monster Match at USA each year Single Stack just seems like an exercise in self-loathing....) All that said, CZ's are very popular pistols for USPSA Production for a reason. They're great fun to shoot and there is plenty of support for them from various vendors and here on Enos. If that chorus of angels went off for you when you picked up that CZ, time to start doing your research and saving your pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Consider spending money on a training session. I made the switch as well, but it doesn't stop a flinch. I sti do it occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yea. I do need training. And I do flench. Not sure if it's pre or post ignition (if that matters). That's another topic that I'm interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If you sight in your XDM from a bench and you have to hold "high and right" and shooting fast "hold high and right" are two different animals. One is the gun and one is you. Depending on the distance you might have to hold high to compenstate for drop, but not because you are shooting fast. I have had the XDM 5.25 and I have the Custom Shadow SP01. The trigger on the SP01 is awesome. The SP01 is heavier also. I shoot the SP01 better than any production gun I have owned. Having said that, I am not a Production shooter per se. IMO if you are holding high and right while shooting fast, you are doing something wrong. A new SP01 is not going to fix your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I really would like to try it out first, but with my current gun I have to concentrate on presenting my trigger between shots, aiming high and to the right when shooting fast...... It's just too much for my peanut sized brain to handle while I'm running around reloading my mag every ten rounds and not break the 180. I'm can't imagine having a gun that you simply put pressure on the trigger and it goes bang wouldn't be a huge improvement. This will only get resolved with practice that burns those motions into your subconscious so you no longer have to think about them. You start off practical shooting needing to consciously think through every action. These steps get rolled up into larger chunks and eventually fade into the background so that your match shooting is done on autopilot. A daily dry-fire program will speed this process—you don't need to send bullets downrange to practice reloads, target transitions, movement, etc. Edited February 23, 2015 by Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Don't worry. I have a very successful USPSA master with over 20 years experience and a CZ that has all the same concerns. He will work with me to pinpoint my problems before I make a purchase. Here's what I've done so far. Without going into too much detail. 15 months of pretty serious practice (Conservative estimate) 500 rnds/weekly live fire practice = 2000/mo. Not including matches. 1.5 hours a week dry fire (i'll be seeing an orthopedic surgeon soon about my elbow grinding elbow and tendonitis) Read Practical Pistol, Ben Stoeger (Twice) Read Practical Shooting, Brian Enos Read With Winning in Mind, Lanny Bassham Did drills in Champion Shooting, Ben Stoeger (two or three times) Read and did the drills in Skills and Drills, Ben Stoeger (on my second pass, really good stuff) Got the video also... Good Good Read and did the drills in Dry-Fire Training, Ben Stoeger (on my second pass, really really good stuff...) When I shoot dry fire I'm pretty dead on, but that's not the same trigger as live fire... Start every live fire practice session with 36 rounds at 50 yards. End every live fire practice session with at least 36 high speed (6 rounds per) at 7-10 yards. Gym 3 times a week including match like sprints. Wake up at 4:30am... I'd say about 50% of my practice has been dedicated to this issue. I do react to the recoil. You can see it with my very first malfunction during a match (see ). Maybe that's my issue. Would you say that it's necessary to completely eliminate this reflex? I read somewhere that it's not a problem as long as it's not pre-ignition. I guess you'd need a high speed camera to figure this out. I really want to take some training. It aint cheap either. My issue is that if I take out the slack OR squeeze the trigger I'm pretty satisfied with my accuracy. When I'm shooting fast and preset my trigger, the first shot is usually dead on, but the second is low left. There's quite a bit of free travel from the beginning of the trigger to where it starts moving the sear and stops as soon as the shot breaks. I've always thought that my gun may be moving when the trigger transitions from free travel to moving the sear. Also, I've been worried that I may be moving the sights when it bottoms out. I love my XDM and will work on the trigger some more no matter what. I'll be shooting till I can come up with some cash... I want to go to training in Frostproof, but I would like to get this resolved first. New gun or not... Kind of a dilemma. Both training and a new gun will blow the old budget... You guys are free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Make dot drills your bitch. Maintain a firm grip with your strong hand but stay loose enough that you can run the trigger smoothly. Crush down hard with your weak hand but not to the point where you shake. Then pull straight back with your trigger finger when the sights are lined up well enough. Call every shot. Think of your weak hand as a vice that holds the pistol securely in place—it will help with recoil control and smoothing over trigger-control sins. You need to experiment with varying degrees of misalignment to figure out what you need to see at different distances. Something's wrong if you're in C class after fifteen months of serious practice, and it's not your choice of blaster. Good training is much cheaper than blowing through ammo while hoping that you'll stumble upon a solution. I know from personal experience that a class with Ben will get things sorted out pronto. Edited February 23, 2015 by Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 From the vantage of the video it everything looks right for your skill level, so what gives with the trigger?!? Honestly it sounds like you're just getting the cart ahead of the horse, clear you mind, relax and get your trigger funk worked out. I think having the bullet go where you expect it to go is skill priority #1 in USPSA, since you already seem to have a pretty good handle on the other stuff, you should enjoy some gains quickly once you get that figured out.PS: Sell that plastic gun and get a CZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'm a "B". Just shooting a little low on my follow up shots...... Hit a no-shoot in a couple of classifiers and your done. Just need to shoot one 60% classifier and have one of my low shot classifiers to drop off and I move up. Then I'll have a new letter on my card. Awesome! You're right about the dot drills. I went to the florida open a few weeks ago and didn't see one XDM. Cant these people just learn the proper techniques? Why spend so much for a gun. What are they stupid?. "PS: Sell that plastic gun and get a CZ" ...... We'll see how the side-by-side comparison goes. Just need a sales pitch for my CPA wife.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. I'm takin it all in...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 This may not be a popular response, but it's an honest one... I've watched a ton of shooters go round and round, year after year spending their dough trying to buy performance with the latest and greatest new wiz-bang. Only to eventually be forced to admit that it's their skill set that is lacking, not their equipment. There are plenty of excellent production shooters out there using the XDM. My recommendation would be to shoot the pistol you already own and spend your money on getting some good coaching, develop a regular dry fire habit and fix the software. That's how your shooting is going to advance most quickly. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 That's how your shooting is going to advance most quickly. Who says it's all about getting better at shooting?!? What about showing off your new gear to your buddies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 That's how your shooting is going to advance most quickly. Who says it's all about getting better at shooting?!? What about showing off your new gear to your buddies? Fair enough… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericjhuber Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I'm a "B". Just shooting a little low on my follow up shots...... Hit a no-shoot in a couple of classifiers and your done. Just need to shoot one 60% classifier and have one of my low shot classifiers to drop off and I move up. Then I'll have a new letter on my card. Awesome! Please shoot one more good classifier so you don't club me like a baby seal again the next time we shoot Production together at a major match. I went to the florida open a few weeks ago and didn't see one XDM. Cant these people just learn the proper techniques? Why spend so much for a gun. What are they stupid?. "PS: Sell that plastic gun and get a CZ" ...... We'll see how the side-by-side comparison goes. Just need a sales pitch for my CPA wife.... There is some XDM love at my local club. Glock seems to have the most striker fired USPSA market share, but you'll see a steady stream of Smith and Wesson products and I suspect if Sig starts pushing their 320 model, you'll see more of them also. There's nothing wrong with "plastic guns", but you can pretty much forget about making a unassailable data-based argument to your wife that will justify forking over multiple thousands of dollars on the new CZ, mags, equipment and the other stuff. You're much better off going with something more...sinister...manipulative....creative that just explains that it just gives you more pleasure to shoot your fancy new shooting iron compared to what you have. You might go with some sort of argument that says that shooting that CZ for the first time gave you the same joy that you had on the day you married her. [Anyone else smell burning sulfur? I smell burning sulfur...and that lightning cloud wasn't there ten minutes ago. You know what? Forget it. Just stick with the XDM and buy your wife some flowers. Okay, good. Cloud is gone...sulfur smell is going away...] Edited February 23, 2015 by ericjhuber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The " flinch" in your video looked more like a push to me, not a flinch. Everyone pushes against impending recoil. You say when you prep the trigger your first shot it's good, but it's the follow up shot that's low. So.... Is your gun over-sprung? Too strong of a recoil spring will create too much inertia with the slide going into battery and that extra energy will make your gun nosedive. Try going 2lbs lighter on the recoil spring, this might help. That being said, I love my CZ's! Budget CZ? Get a P-09 to give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4FunLP Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Did somebody say dryfire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMC Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I have been competing for about 3 and a half years, I started with an M&P L and switched to a G17 a couple years ago. Well I bought a CZ 75 shadow recently and I am in love but, it did cost a pretty penny. CZ is geat but I would think your fundamentals need to be addressed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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