New 16" bbl recommendations?

[MickB]

So can these barrels be purchased without the gas block, for those wanting to use adjustable gas?

Also, if these things are shooting softer than an 18" Nordic barrel with a longer gas system, what is it that is resulting in that performance?

Even smaller gas port with the right balance between port pressure and dwell time?

Mick

[Stlhead]

You mentioned JP aluminum bcg, what comp, buffer and spring are you running to achieve this?

My setup is JP silent captured spring, JP LMOS BCG, SLR Sentry 7 adjustable gas block, and Lantac Dragon.

This setup puts my old 18" rifle gas to shame and its not even close. There's a reason I stopped shooting it in matches.

So we have one guy stating that the barrels will last twice as long, and another saying that they shoot softer than a heavier barrel with a longer gas system. This whole thread is starting to look like a social media marketing experiment. I find both of these product performance claims to be quite unbelievable. If these barrels are made from magic unicorn shit that will last twice as long and bends the excepted rules of physics then tell us instead of just making boastful claims. Tell us who is selling the product, tell us who is a compensated shill, tell us why the surface treatment on these barrels far exceeds the performance that it has shown on other barrels. Tell us why the barrel is softer than a similarly built 18" rifle length gun. Call me skeptical, call me an ass hole, but it still sounds like magic beans flavor of the month marketing.

[MarkCO]

Mick, will check on Q1. They have played with the gas port some, but yes.

[MarkCO]

Shawn, no one is forcing you to buy one, nor believe anything. So while this is still America, there is no breaking of the laws of physics. People said the 18" Nordic was not possible also and now, with almost no marketing, it is one of the preferred 3gun barrels...and there are other barrel makers copying it... Heck, I was told my "little plastic clippy things" would not work either...4 years later where are we? (Rhetorical question)

Also, you need to go back and read, as well as comprehend, the meaning of the written word in the prior posts.

I am not being compensated for letting others know I have found a barrel that is very impressive. Be skeptical, as was I, but please don't stoop to impugning those who are just letting others know about something new.

[dauntedfuture]

Gents and ladies,

I am quite interested in all of this. The past part of the puzzle for my next rifle build is a barrel. I am set on a 18" and possibly a 20" barrel. I have been shooting NRA highpower and NRA Long range for a very long time. Over the years I have had the opportunity to rub elbows with some of the greatest shooters (non 3G type of shooting) and there are/ is always lots of discussions over rifles and rifle barrels, powder, bullets etc. When it comes to barrel requirements NRA highpower and LR is much more demanding then highpower, and both are significantly more demanding then 3G will ever be. Over these years I have also developed a healthy skepticism of accuracy claims; I simply will not believe you if you tell my your XX factory XX shoots 1/4 MOA all day long.... This just does not routinely happen with factory rifles with 75.00 barrels, there is a reason that a premium target barrel blank costs over 300.00

My background as a target shooter also means that I want to see quantitate data, so " Not one miss on that LR stage, it must be a good barrel..." means little, neither does " I hit the 300 and 400 targets on my first shots, so that's an accurate barrel..." , its data that makes the difference, groups with ammo and a given range on paper, that tells the story.

I am confident that this single greatest contribution to how accurate an AR rifle is going to be is the Barrel and more then anything else, the blank that made the barrel is what matters, not who turned the barrel and chambered it. In practical terms, in an AR there is not a difference between a .223, .223 Wylde and 5.56 (yes there is some effect on pressure). I also know that barrel length has some effect on accuracy but more of an effect on velocity. Short barrels will shoot better given that there is less of a chance for an imperfection in the bore with less barrel, this is why BR barrels are short. Highpower barrels are long as we want to milk that last 50 FPS out of a .308 Palma rifle.

I also know for a fact that the longer the operating system is on an AR then less peak pressure is generated. I should think that even with an adjustable gas block on a carbine gas rifle you can adjust the amount of gas, but the pressure is still higher. the result is a faster operation of the bolt which can be tuned down. I have noticed that the perception is that the longer the gas system, the softer the system feels.

SO... All this tells me that I am to be skeptical of lightweight barrels. Experience suggest tells me that light weight barrels heat up faster, they are "whipper" and are more prone to be less accurate then an equivalent heavier barrel and much more prone to be less accurate after heating up. I believe that a longer gas system will feel softer BUT you might have to shoot sufficiently "hot" ammo to make it run reliably (or use LW parts). I am skeptical that any kind of barrel coating is going to make a barrel shoot any better at all. A harder barrel surface SHOULD wear more slowly which should reduce wear and this SHOULD extend the practical accuracy life of the barrel longer. The harder barrel surface SHOULD also make the barrel easier to clean and should resist damage from cleaning better then a softer barrel.

I hear, and have herd claims that XXX treated barrel will last XX,XXX rounds, what we don't hear is the definition of "last" and this...is the real question. I want to know what the groups look life when the barrel was new and after XX,XXX rounds; at a certain point a throat will get so rough that bullets will come apart but this is more of a concern with thin jacket target bullets. As an aside, typically as a barrel wears the ES and SD begin to creep up a little too but this is not a concern for 3G.

I am excited to try a treated barrel when I get back and ill be sure to chime in with results

my .02

[MarkCO]

So can these barrels be purchased without the gas block, for those wanting to use adjustable gas?

Also, if these things are shooting softer than an 18" Nordic barrel with a longer gas system, what is it that is resulting in that performance?

Even smaller gas port with the right balance between port pressure and dwell time?

Mick

Mick, -$25 for no gas block.

[Stlhead]

Shawn, no one is forcing you to buy one, nor believe anything. So while this is still America, there is no breaking of the laws of physics. People said the 18" Nordic was not possible also and now, with almost no marketing, it is one of the preferred 3gun barrels...and there are other barrel makers copying it... Heck, I was told my "little plastic clippy things" would not work either...4 years later where are we? (Rhetorical question)

Also, you need to go back and read, as well as comprehend, the meaning of the written word in the prior posts.

I am not being compensated for letting others know I have found a barrel that is very impressive. Be skeptical, as was I, but please don't stoop to impugning those who are just letting others know about something new.

Mark, I am in no way feeling forced to buy anything, and so far no one has provided any reason for me to believe anything. I appreciate that this is America, I enjoy it here, even if the laws of physics are still adhered to. I do not see how anyone would find the 18" Nordic to be impossible, but your claim of almost no marketing seriously undervalues the tireless years of work you spent pushing them, I think that the market success of that barrel in 3 gun can be directly attributed to you more than any other factor. You may need to help me with your rhetorical question as I am not smart enough to draw any relevance from it that applies to this discusion.

I have gone back and reviewed the prior posts and I am still hung up on the post claiming twice the barrel life and the other claiming that somehow this barrel shoots softer than a heavier 18" barrel with a rifle gas system. If these can be explained please do so. This is a discusion board, this is a discusion, claims have been made, back them up with something other than "because I said so". How much testing have you completed and what where the results? How can these results be explained, and who else has gotten similar results?

If you paid for the barrels you have recieved then tell us, it makes your findings more credible. If you have no financial affiliation with the production, distribution, or retail sale of these products that would add even more credibility to your assertions. Saying that you are not being paid to "let people know" seems like an avoidance of the question. Instead of telling us what you are not being compensated for tell us what you are being compensated for. If you are going to sell these then just say so. You sell stuff, it is not a secret.

There is a real and possibly productive discusion to be had once we get through with these two issues lets talk about how and why these barrels last twice as long and shoot softer.

[MarkCO]

I am no marketing genius by any measure. If I was, I would have people typing this response for me, but it is just me and my recommendations are based on my testing and value, nothing else. But yes, the Nordic 18" has not been marketed well, if that is on me, then so be it. I have had sponsors refuse to send product to matches I run because they do not like what I say or how I say it, then I have personal sponsors that appreciate the fact that I am willing to call a spade a spade. As of today, I have no financial affiliation with the production, distribution, or retail sale of these products. However, I believe in the performance and that prior sentence very well may not be true sometime in the future, but it will be based on product quality, not $. I designed and manufacture a comp, however, I continue to say that comps are part of a system and that system includes the shooter and load. Same thing here. Yes, I shot a lighter shorter gun and it recoils less than my Nordic barreled gun. If that will be true for you and your loads, we both know that is a question only you can answer.

I did not say that the Stretch16 will last twice as long. I said that other barrels, Melonite vs. non-Melonite, have proven to last twice as long. I don't have enough rounds through them to give a full review. It will be multiple barrels with multiple loads with multiple barrel nuts, receivers and BCGs before I come to a final conclusion. However, I have shot 14 other 16" barrels over the past year looking for certain performance benchmarks and so far, the Stretch16 has beaten out the other barrels. Will it beat an 18" Nordic across the board? I will find out, but it won't be today. You want to put 500 rounds through one? Commit the rounds and I will send you a complete upper for a week for you to shoot.

[TyinTX]

The Stretch 16 interests me because I've been thinking I would like a 16" barrel for shooting Tac scope. The intermediate gas system length on a 16" barrel is something I've wondered why nobody made, it just makes sense to me. If the gas port is optimal sized to where an adjustable gas block isn't needed to run low mass parts even better. My two main uses for my ARs are 3 gun and shooting them suppressed. I'd rather have a smaller gas port then need to run a adjustable gas block. I also want a 1/8 twist and medium profile. Sounds like these barrels check all those boxes. Price isn't bad with gas block and gas tube included, I'd spend $80 to get my preferred setup that I run on my other barrel. $20 for a melonite barrel I will be more than happy to take the chance that it will do something for barrel life, if it doesn't I'll know the next time. My accuracy requirements are kinda lax, I don't have any real precision experience. Minute of prairie dog out to 300 yards is about all I care about for a .223 and for 3 gun that is more then I need so far. I'm a ways out from starting this project but I'm happy to have all the info I can have access to about this barrel or any set up similar to it.

[Colodrew]

I am a sponsored shooter for Strong Side as a full disclaimer Shawn.

I have the original prototype and have one full three gun season on that barrel and I estimate close to 10,000 rounds through and It still shoots under 1 MOA with 55's or 77's. I have never cared for the recoil impulse of 16" guns until shooting the stretch. I had just re-barreled my 18" CTR-02 when I tried the Stretch and have not looked back. I think I have about 50 rounds through my JP a year later and I am a huge JP fan and love that rifle.

The intermediate gas system which is 2" longer than a carbine really makes a difference and it is by far my favorite gun to shoot.

[reptoid]

I am a sponsored shooter for Strong Side as a full disclaimer Shawn.

I have the original prototype and have one full three gun season on that barrel and I estimate close to 10,000 rounds through and It still shoots under 1 MOA with 55's or 77's. I have never cared for the recoil impulse of 16" guns until shooting the stretch. I had just re-barreled my 18" CTR-02 when I tried the Stretch and have not looked back. I think I have about 50 rounds through my JP a year later and I am a huge JP fan and love that rifle.

The intermediate gas system which is 2" longer than a carbine really makes a difference and it is by far my favorite gun to shoot.

Actually, I think you meant to say 2" longer than a normal mid-length gas system (what their web site says) and 1.5" shorter than rifle length gas. So......barrel 2" shorter (18"-16") Gas 1.5" shorter=.5" less dwell distance/time.

[Nebwake]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

[jkrispies]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

[Stlhead]

Happy Valentine's Day!

Mark, I appreciate your offer, but I have a hard time squeezing in enough range time as it is and I have a very covienient one. I am sure your tests will suffice.

Andrew, I appreciate your candor and your thoughts. Nothing shocking about Prefering the stretch over your previous barrel, tell us why. I can understand how with fine tuning and proper load selection the recoil impulse of a 16" intermediate gas gun can approximate the feel of an 18" gun. Give us more details as why you prefer this barrel.

my past research and personal experience with melonite has shown an increase in barrel life as well, but more in the line of 10-20 %, what the melonite has done for me in the past is give a substantial velocity increase, which has yet to be mentioned in this thread. One thing I find strange is the cost adder for the melonite coating being only $20, it has typically ran over a $100 for a bolt gun barrel. Can that be attributed to economy of scale? Or is this a different process that is more cost effective.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Stlhead

[Nebwake]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

Only thing is that I have a rifle length APC handguard on the rifle now. I suppose I could sell it off, but I am looking to keep the re-barrel price to a minimum.

[michael1778]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

Only thing is that I have a rifle length APC handguard on the rifle now. I suppose I could sell it off, but I am looking to keep the re-barrel price to a minimum.

Wait a sec. This "intermediate" gas system is 1.5 inches *shorter* than rifle length gas. So, I think your rifle length handguard would be more than fine. Or am I missing something?

[jkrispies]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

Only thing is that I have a rifle length APC handguard on the rifle now. I suppose I could sell it off, but I am looking to keep the re-barrel price to a minimum.

I'm not familiar with AP Customs so I looked them up... and they have four different lengths of "rifle," lol. They do make a 13.5" version, but you might have the 12".

For what it's worth, I've been going through the same debate (have my new upper on order now) and struggled with whether or not I'd upgrade only the barrel and hand guard while maintaining the receiver and gas block. I ended up just purchasing a full upper since I figured I could do better selling my current upper as complete rather than parting it out as a used barrel and a used hand guard. Will see if that was a wise decision! Just something to consider, especially if you're thinking that you'd prefer a different hand guard.

[Nebwake]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

Only thing is that I have a rifle length APC handguard on the rifle now. I suppose I could sell it off, but I am looking to keep the re-barrel price to a minimum.

Wait a sec. This "intermediate" gas system is 1.5 inches *shorter* than rifle length gas. So, I think your rifle length handguard would be more than fine. Or am I missing something?

the "rifle" length had guards are meant to flush up with the rear of a rifle length gas block location like how we all used to have handguards before the extended craze hit I suppose I can measure the gun I have with mid length set up on it

[jkrispies]

I wonder if an ap custom rifle length handguard would cover the gas block or if you would need an extended 15"er

If you figure 15" for a rifle length and it's 1.5" shorter than rifle, you'll need at least a 13.5" guard. Some are that length (not sure about AP... I think the BCM KMR is that length if my memory is correct) but I'd go with a 15" anyway. The weight increase isn't too much and it gives you more options when bracing on a support, for hand position, and rails if you use them.

Only thing is that I have a rifle length APC handguard on the rifle now. I suppose I could sell it off, but I am looking to keep the re-barrel price to a minimum.

Wait a sec. This "intermediate" gas system is 1.5 inches *shorter* than rifle length gas. So, I think your rifle length handguard would be more than fine. Or am I missing something?

"Rifle length" is sort of like "jumbo shrimp" in that they come in different sizes and don't have a name that makes sense anymore! A "traditional rifle length" of 12" (I think?) would be designed to expose the gas block on a traditional rifle length gas system so that a fixed iron sighted gas block could be used. A 13.5" or 15" rifle length would cover the gas block for a handguard mounted front sight. Nowadays, I think people should just list the handguards by length rather than title...

[ccoker]

I just ordered a 16" fluted melonite...

[Colodrew]

This is one reason I like this barrel. 200 yard 5 shot group at 200 yards from my Stretch 16 yesterday. 77SMK 23g 8208, LC brass, 2.255 oal, cci400 primer

Edited February 22, 2015 by Colodrew

[Steve RA]

That looks like pretty good evidence !

[striped1]

This is one reason I like this barrel. 200 yard 5 shot group at 200 yards from my Stretch 16 yesterday. 77SMK 23g 8208, LC brass, 2.255 oal, cci400 primerimage.jpg

was this from a melonited barrel? What is the rest of the set up? gas block, handguard, comp. bcg, etc?

[Colodrew]

This is one reason I like this barrel. 200 yard 5 shot group at 200 yards from my Stretch 16 yesterday. 77SMK 23g 8208, LC brass, 2.255 oal, cci400 primerimage.jpg

was this from a melonited barrel? What is the rest of the set up? gas block, handguard, comp. bcg, etc?

JP-15 upper/lower with titane bolt carrier, JP bolt, JP trigger, JP captured spring, SLR keymod handgaurd, seekins adj. gas block, Rolling Thunder comp with non- fluted non- melonite Stretch 16 barrel. Swarovski Z6i 1-6 in a Larue mount. This barrel also has a full season on it. I estimate between 8,000 & 10,000 rounds.

[reptoid]

This is one reason I like this barrel. 200 yard 5 shot group at 200 yards from my Stretch 16 yesterday. 77SMK 23g 8208, LC brass, 2.255 oal, cci400 primerimage.jpg

What did the other 10 groups you shot look like?