naim Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) I've been reloading .223 for about a year now so I'm still fairly new to it. I prefer not to put a crimp on my precision ammo. The problem I'm running into is I don't have enough neck tension on the case to hold the bullet in place. Is there something I'm missing? Or is there no way around putting a crimp on the ammo? Edited December 16, 2014 by naim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 What dies are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Polish the expander area on the decapping rod down a little and the case neck will grip more tightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raydee38 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I had the same issue until I started sizing and trimming with the RT1200. Now the neck tension is tight enough that I don't need to crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naim Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Using Dillon dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Make sure there is not a burr on the expander ball in the sizing die. Then measure the diameter and let us know.... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 if you are using standard dies and your bullets don't have enough neck tension to stay in place there is something wrong with your dies. The neck area is too big or your expander ball is way way too big. if you measure the ID of a sized case it should be .220-.223. The bullet would be .224 so that's .004-.001 neck tension. .002 is good enough unless you are shooting BR to mess with. A crimp will not "hold" a bullet in place, its just there to help with setback under recoil which is almost a nonexistent problem in .223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Remove the expander ball from the Dillon resizing die to increase your neck tension. Got that piece of advice direct from Dillon.... Mick Using Dillon dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskillo Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Make sure your dies are clean and burr free, then try again and report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 What ever you do, the ID on the case neck needs to be at least .223. That provides .001 of neck tension. you really should have more like a .222 ID, or .002 neck tension. If you start getting smaller then say, .221, or .003 neck tension, and you don't use an M-die or VLD chamfering tool you will shave bullets. the way that sizing standard dies work is that the ID of the neck is controlled by the expander ball, a normal expander ball is .221-.223 and brass generally springs back to .001 smaller then the expander ball will. the ID of the neck sizing area on most dies is such that it sizes the case so the ID of the neck is .220 or so and the expander ball expands the neck of the case out to .221-.223. Crimping a bullet does not increase neck tension but it will increase pressure a little bit. If you take a loaded round WITHOUT a crimp you should NOT be able to set the bullet back in the case if you push a loaded round by the base into wood with moderate force. A loaded round with .001 neck tension is water tight and air tight. If you have a strong crimp into a canalure and you have a loaded round nose dive into the front of a magazine the bullet might not be set back into the case as the front of the canalure will catch the brass and keep the bullet, in some cases, from being set back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My Dillon 223 dies give me a case neck ID of about .2205-.2210 which is plenty of neck tension for an AR. I think way back when I might have polished the expander ball a touch. Cant remember. I dont crimp any of my rifle ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 .2205 = .0035 of neck tension and .221 = .003 neck tension. This is more then enough. Remember that this is what one kind of brass as different brass has different neck thickness. If you are running dies with an expander ball then this is much, much less of an issue. Thicker brass or harder brass might spring back a little more. If you all the sudden neck turn your brass you will change things as well. If you decide to get bushing dies and not run an expander ball, you have to stick to one kind of brass and you might need to neck turn to maintain a consistent ID of the brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 .2205 = .0035 of neck tension and .221 = .003 neck tension. This is more then enough. And that is exactly how much I like to use on semi/full auto. My bolt guns in everything from 223 Ackley to 338 Lapua to 50 BMG I normally start with about .003 and check long range accuracy and also how low the ES/SD numbers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Very true. It is often very hard to tell the difference on target with neck tension variations in non-benchrest rifles. If you are cronographing your ammo you will usually see that one combination yields better ES numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'd like to know what you all r using to measure you're case mouth ID's with to come up w numbers to the .0005" Calipers r no where near that accurate even with a guage ring..... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'd like to know what you all r using to measure you're case mouth ID's with to come up w numbers to the .0005" Calipers r no where near that accurate even with a guage ring..... Nick My set of Mitutoyu calipers go out four digits. When I measure the necks they read .2205-.2210. So I am just guessing. Had them calibrated and PMed just last summer too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 My electronic calipers go to .0001, but with a .001 dial caliper I just eyeball if its between .221-.222 and call it .2215 but I don't think +/- .0005 makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 My electronic calipers go to .0001, but with a .001 dial caliper I just eyeball if its between .221-.222 and call it .2215 but I don't think +/- .0005 makes a difference. Agreed. .0005 is splitting hairs for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you've got more than .003 tension, think about using VLD chamfer to avoid shaving copper when seating bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If you have more then .003 of neck tension you are doing something wrong. Even with a VLD chamfer you will damage the bullets base. load and pull a bullet with a .004 NT and look at the base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDude Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 you need to have about .003 of neck tension in order not to crimp. for that you need to Polish/Sand your expander ball to about .222 When I tried Dillon 223 die there was about .001 of neck tension. Freaking expander ball was .2235 in size. WAY TOO BIG. I didnt want to mess with Dillon die so I sent it back. I dont like the way decapping unit is setup on dillon. I use Forster FL size die and Forster Ultra micrometer seater. This setup makes very straight/true ammo. I use LC brass only and my expander ball is set to .2215. No crimp needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 My electronic calipers go to .0001, but with a .001 dial caliper I just eyeball if its between .221-.222 and call it .2215 but I don't think +/- .0005 makes a difference. I have a pin "dowel" set. I find one that fits the into the case neck I want to measure to tell me what is the actual ID. The pins are marked how big they are. Of course you can measure their outside diameter with your calipers to double check. I have always found them to be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Search for: rifleman's journal, neck tension. Good twelve page article on neck tension and how to achieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'd like to know what you all r using to measure you're case mouth ID's with to come up w numbers to the .0005" Calipers r no where near that accurate even with a guage ring..... Nick Expanding ball gauge and micrometer. Cheaper even than a good set of calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Measuring the expander ball will mostly give you a good measurement. The brass will spring back a little and the end result is that the ID of the neck will be a little smaller then the expander ball by .0015-.0005 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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