Question about CZ for competition for new guy

[Supranatural]

Okay I started shooting this year again after many years away (first started shooting in College but wandered away as I pursued other interests after college). Long story short I got back into firearms with the intention of home protection (post Hurricane Sandy and seeing how other disasters played out such as Katrina) but soon found I enjoyed it, moreso than when I was in college. I first got an AR, then a Ruger 10/22, then a Sig Sauer P229, then another P229 (so I could have a home defense pistol with a practice gun of the same manual of arms), then I got my CCW and a H&K P2000SK as my carry pistol. I've been thinking of competing soon and looked into what pistol to get next. Originally was going to get something like an H&K VP9 or USP 9mm Expert but then realized that since I already had 3 guns intended as defensive pistols why handicap myself to Sig Sauer and H&K if there were possibly better alternatives out there. So I went on these forums and started reading and right now I've narrowed my choices down to CZ and Tanfoglio. I am lookking to start with IPSC (because they run at my range all the time) Production class so I want a pistol that is legal for that. With CZ I'm looking at the CZ75 SP-O1 Shadow and it appears that it is legal, however every one I find on Gunbroker looks like it has had some "tuning" from CZ's Custom shop. My question is what kind of tuning is permitted? It seems that the production division is pretty restricted, so would something like the "CZ Tuning 101 with Professor Atlas" thread be permitted or prohibited? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if my questions seem overly simplistic, I'm a new guy looking to learn and get better.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Supranatural

[kneelingatlas]

IPSC Production rules are more strict than those of USPSA which is more popular on these boards, so you'd be best to read up for yourself: http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf

Welcome

[Supranatural]

I couldn't find anything regarding trigger mods, in Wikipedia (yes, I know, it's not 100% reliable but...) someone states that "Minor polishing and fitting of trigger components is allowed," this sounds like it fits under Professor Atlas Tuning 101 thread...

[Bam Bam]

If you are looking at a CZ SP-01 Shadow Custom, you should just look at CZCustom.com for the pistol. They are all legal for Production division. I would hold off on the Accu Shadow, these are but dont know for sure.

[g17drumr]

Get the CZ!!... even though I've never shot a tanfoglio. But the shadow is great

[brisix]

The CZC SP-01 Shadow Custom 2014 should be IPSC legal since they use OEM parts including the drop in Pre-B disconnector. Check with Stuart to make sure first. Also they have a competition trigger job for an extra $100 that will drop the DA from 8lbs to the 6-7lbs range. If you do that it will limit the primers that you can use. The standard trigger the Custom comes with will pop any primer and is silky smooth.

http://czcustom.com/shadowcustom2014blk.aspx

In terms of DIY any polishing and deburring of OEM parts is legal in IPSC. You cannot replace OEM parts with hand fit parts like CZC or CGW hand fit disconnectors.

[BMaus]

http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf

"Appendix D4: Production Division"

"16. Original parts and components offered by the OFM as standard equipment, or as an option, for a specific model
handgun on the IPSC approved handgun list are permitted, subject to the following:
16.1 Modifications to them, other than minor detailing (the removal of burrs and/or adjustments unavoidably
required in order to fit replacement OFM parts or components), are prohibited. Other prohibited
modifications include those which facilitate faster reloading (e.g. flared, enlarged and/or add-on
magwells, etc.), changing the original color and/or finish of a handgun, and/or adding stripes or other
embellishments."

Deburring and fitting is ok. Polishing is not.

However... ....an unmodified gun with 20,000 rounds thru it may appear polished in places....

Production list;

http://www.ipsc.org/rules/proddiv.php

"(CZUSA Custom Shop models (including the SP-01 Shadow Target, CZ 75 Shadow T and CZ 75 SP01 ACCU Shadow), and Frankonia models (including Mamba and Viper), are not approved)"

.

Edited November 5, 2014 by BMaus

[razorfish]

Supernatural, It sounds like you're from the United States. If you're from the US you may be getting IPSC confused with USPSA. Even though USPSA is basically IPSC in the United States they have completely different rules regarding allowed modifications in the Production division.

So, where are you planning on shooting?

[inertia]

I was just thinking that if you are in the US make sure you know if your club and for that matter area in which you are shooting is really running IPSC or USPSA. If you are going to shoot USPSA get a CZ custom, Automatic Accuracy, or Cajun CZ SP-01 Shadow the nicest one you can afford and start polishing anything they missed.

Contrary to popular belief you can get a very light trigger with reliable ignition on a variety of primers if you are diligent in how you tune the guts.

[asimonp79]

Get yourself a shadow.

few minor "production legal" changes - and you are all good. Sweet triger, nice recoil. you can not go wrong

[zhunter]

Get yourself a shadow.

few minor "production legal" changes - and you are all good. Sweet triger, nice recoil. you can not go wrong

This ^^^^

In the big scheme of shooting expenditures, the cost of a CZC SP-01 Shadow Custom is very small.

Bullets

Brass

Powder

Primers

Reloading press

Belt

Holster

Mag pouches

5-6 mags

Gas to matches and practice sessions

Entries for local and big matches

Bottom line (pun intended) buy a great gun, buy once cry once and be done with it

[BeerBaron]

if you're shooting USPSA (which is most likely if you're in the US) then the path to modding an SP01 or shadow is posted here many times. check out the professor atlas 101 tuning thread.

if you really are shooting IPSC rules or just want your gun to be IPSC compliant for OS matches, world shoots etc then i'd suggest the following:

basically, all parts except the grips, sights and mags must be CZ UB. you can de-burr parts but mirror polishing internals, full on trigger job etc is out.

10 or 11lb recoil spring (available from CZUB)

13lb mainspring (can occasionally find CZUB branded ones that are lower but I've not seen one recently. 13 is still a good compromise)

grips of your choice

85C trigger (old style - this is personal preference but I like the thicker old style trigger with less curve to it)

front sight of your choice (dawson have a wide range of heights and widths for the CZ's)

rear sight of choice (I like the fixed rear - adjustables just break too much in IPSC for my liking)

pre-b disconector (this will greatly shorten the SA pre-travel and the reset too)

CZ UB comp hammer (improves the SA trigger

extended firing pin and reduced power firing pin spring (again, CZ UB)

steel guiderod (this one is also a personal preference, the factory plastic one is possibly more reliable, but I've not ever had a problem with the steel one either)

while your fitting these parts you can remove some of the nastier tool marks etc from pieces like the trigger bow which will help smooth the action a little.

with those bits done and fitted correctly it will be a nice shooting gun and should be very reliable too.

[Supranatural]

I was just thinking that if you are in the US make sure you know if your club and for that matter area in which you are shooting is really running IPSC or USPSA. If you are going to shoot USPSA get a CZ custom, Automatic Accuracy, or Cajun CZ SP-01 Shadow the nicest one you can afford and start polishing anything they missed.

Contrary to popular belief you can get a very light trigger with reliable ignition on a variety of primers if you are diligent in how you tune the guts.

I just sent email to my clubs competition director to clarify. The calendar says IPSC but the events page says "IPSC USPSA" so that affects what I can get for the production class.

[Supranatural]

Just got clarification....USPSA rules, so that opens up things a bit more for me.

What exactly is different with a Shadow variant? I'm looking at one with drop free mags, is that legal for USPSA production?

[2MoreChains]

Just got clarification....USPSA rules, so that opens up things a bit more for me.

What exactly is different with a Shadow variant? I'm looking at one with drop free mags, is that legal for USPSA production?

"Shadow" essentially denotes no firing pin block.

Any model with a B in it has the firing pin safety

Any model with a D in it has a decocker

Shadows have neither the B or the D and I think the barrels are fit a little different than the non-Shadow models, and are drop free mags.

CZ USA sells the CZ-75 Shadow (short dust cover) or they also sell the CZ-75 SP-01 Shadow (full dust cover w/ rail).

CZ Custom takes the above Shadows and does some extra cool stuff to them like triggers jobs, competition hammer, short trigger reset, sights, grips and calls them the Shadow Custom. If you get a bushing installed it is called the Accu-Shadow. If you get an LPA adjustable rear sight installed on the slide it is called the Shadow-Target.

All of the above variants of the Shadow and Shadow Custom are legal for USPSA Production (as in on the "list" which can be found on the USPSA website under rules).

I am in week 7 waiting for mine. Word from CZC is "soon"!

[zzt]

I happened to be looking at the IPSC rules and discovered this in the Production Guns listing.

"(CZUSA Custom Shop models (including the SP-01 Shadow Target, CZ 75 Shadow T and CZ 75 SP01 ACCU Shadow), and Frankonia models (including Mamba and Viper), are not approved)"

These were the approved pistols.

CZ75B Omega, CZ75 P-02, CZ75, CZ75B, CZ75B Stainless, CZ75BD, CZ75BD Police, CZ75 Compact, CZ75D Compact, CZ75 SemiCompact, CZ75 Combat II, CZ85, CZ85B, CZ85 Combat

CZ40B, CZ97B, CZ99, CZ100, CZ110, CZ2075 Rami, CZ2075 Rami P

CZ75 P01, P07 Duty, P09, CZ75 SP-01, CZ75 SP-01 Tactical, CZ75 SP-01 Shadow, CZ75 SP01 Dual Tone, CZ75 SP-01 Sport (9x21mm version with OFM trigger stop as sold in Italy), CZ75 SP-01 Phantom, CZ75 SP-01 Shadow TR, CZ75 SP-01 Shadow Orange.

Also approved are variants with original Ceska Zbrojovka (CZUB) barrels which are longer than standard (e.g. SP-01A, SP-01DK, SP-01DK Shadow), provided the barrel length does not exceed 127mm, and provided all other aspects of these variants fully comply with all other Production Division rules. All dual tone models, Shadow Line variants of approved models, and approved models with OFM coloured frames, are also approved.

[Supranatural]

Just placed my order for a CZ SP-01 Shadow Custom...now just have to wait 10 weeks and add water (or ammo)...thanks everyone!

[Supranatural]

I got my Shadow Custom in January and due to a harsh Northeast winter (snow and freezing temps) I didn't get to live fire it until yesterday. I love it, awesome gun. Mostly shot at steel targets and I just couldn't seem to miss, either using only DA or rapid firing. Such a great trigger. I LOVE this gun. Can't wait to compete with it. As far as I'm concerned well worth the price. Now I have to probably get a second one as a backup for matches after I get my feet wet in USPSA.

[2MoreChains]

Good deal, enjoy!