CraigS. Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 What I see almost as bad as the hot reholstering is the pistol tossing into five gallon buckets. Who knows where the barrel is pointing when they hit the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I suspect the general public doesn't have a clue or an opinion one way or the other about hot reholstering. I think that probably goes for a lot (majority?) of non-competition shooters as well. Take a look at the way trap and skeet shooters handle their shotguns, we cringe everytime we see someone resting their empty shotgun barrel on their foot. Yet, the general public and most other shooters don't think anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 What I see almost as bad as the hot reholstering is the pistol tossing into five gallon buckets. Who knows where the barrel is pointing when they hit the bottom. This is much worse than hot holstering. At least with hot holstering, the handgun is complete control of the shooter until it's back safely in a holster. (unless it's dropped, of course) We've all see guns pitched like horse shoes into various sizes and shapes of buckets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I wasn't talking about the general public's opinion of "hot re-holstering". I was talking about their opinion of spiking a long gun into an abandonment box only to have it fall out pointing UP range, and their opinion on blowing the bottom off an abandonment box or an A.D. into the ground real close to the shooter, and the general "on the very edge" abandonment we see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 So maybe a little egg holder on all guns. If your egg breaks, DQ. Kind of like the junior high home economics thing the girls used to do with the little egg baby... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr50mag Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I am with MWX40x40 I would like to see the hot re-holster go away. I find this slightly amusing considering it was Pat who brought it to my attention that it should not be forced but allowable if done safely per USPSA rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 MarkCo, you must have grown up in a very affluent area. The home economics girls in our school just brought their own baby from home. What was the purpose of the egg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 LOL... They had to carry it around for a week without breaking it. So we get a little pic rail basket, put a raw egg in it...you get the idea now? Maybe a whole kit of safety flags, egg baskets and maybe an inclinometer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr50mag Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) What I see almost as bad as the hot reholstering is the pistol tossing into five gallon buckets. Who knows where the barrel is pointing when they hit the bottom. All pistol dump buckets have a wedge screwed in place that keeps that from occurring except for the most unusual circumstances but then it's still pointing straight down. The reason there is no DQ or stage DQ for guns off safety is because it's a procedural penalty. All barrels are uniform in size, staked to the ground with 18" forming spikes and tested prior to each match. It is in our opinion a muzzle pointed at the ground in any condition in not considered unsafe. Only safety infractions are considered unsafe and grounds for a DQ. All the usual DQ infractions still apply. We've had more DQs for dropped pistols than anything and threre isn't a rule that can stop that from occurring. The ROs are more often than not the same as we use the same people match after match to keep as much consistency as possible and each of them knows where the 180 is on their stage with every array. It may look like they're on the 180 but there is nothing wrong with that till they break it so you can chalk it up to the camera angles. We've had about 4 people go home for that. As far as I know there isn't any rule dictating firearm grounding etiquette or how forceful or gentle a gun can be pitched, thrown or slammed in a barrel. What's done in matches isn't a reflection of the show, it's quite the opposite and what's been going on since I started shooting. People have always carelessly thrown their guns in barrels and we've all looked at them sideways ever since. Hot reholstering is just an available option some people use to dissect a stage based on their skillset. The new format will probably do away with it as a viable option for all but one stage but no one here watches it anyways so it shouldn't make a difference. Edited December 29, 2014 by mr50mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I agree Rob, it isn't a reflection on the show at all! Yes people have always and will always carelessly throw guns into a barrel. What the show does is, allows non-competitors the chance to see the carelessness of some folks so they can draw an opinion about it. Personally I like hot re-holstering MarkCo, I really couldn't care less as to how people treat their own gear on abandonment. What I was pointing out was how that is PERCEIVED by the general public. As an aside why don't you sit down with some of the Trap and Skeet crowd and show them some match footage and gage their reaction as to whether they PERCEIVE if it is safe or not...... It might just save on your grocery bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun0007 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Why in the 3G Regional Series is a pistol off safe a Match DQ but on the Pro Series it is a procedural penalty? Are non Pro guns more likely to go off? The same dump buckets are used at both events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I assume you know I was being sarcastic. I have spent three years dealing with a board at our local range who thought everything we did was unsafe. Covert videos shown at board meetings trying to get us kicked out. I merely go to the next meeting and explain... Given a green light. Heck we even shoot at steel now. I am not sure we can change the perception of the general public regarding running around with guns. But the one board member who pointed a rifle at me on his "safe" straight line range now has a whole new perspective on gun safety. If the safety layers are used... Good. When the safety layers are reduced for TV or perceived irrelevance... Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr50mag Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Why in the 3G Regional Series is a pistol off safe a Match DQ but on the Pro Series it is a procedural penalty? Are non Pro guns more likely to go off? The same dump buckets are used at both events. The rules for 2015 have been rewritten from the ground up and will closely follow the Pro Series rules with the same approach to grounding firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Yep, I knew responses were going to be interesting. My only point is that AD's in the berm, on the ground, blowing the bottom of a dump bucket out do not draw blood. An AD when holstering most likely will. However, the odds of this happening are highly unlikely, so chances are it is all good, not sure what I was thinking. But, if it is so harmless, why on earth to they have so many empty chamber holstered pistol starts? You are off the clock with no pressure to holster before the buzzer. I think this is where I am getting confused. I used to think it was because with all the running around while shooting rifle and/or shotgun, and getting in and out of positions that if your gun came out of the holster and hit the ground it would be in a safer condition. But, it must be another match ploy just to see if I can remember to rack the slide while under pressure running the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Steele Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just watched new episode of Hot Shots. This is a great shooting show and has a great format that keeps me interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Why in the 3G Regional Series is a pistol off safe a Match DQ but on the Pro Series it is a procedural penalty? Are non Pro guns more likely to go off? The same dump buckets are used at both events. The rules for 2015 have been rewritten from the ground up and will closely follow the Pro Series rules with the same approach to grounding firearms. When will the new rules be posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr50mag Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Why in the 3G Regional Series is a pistol off safe a Match DQ but on the Pro Series it is a procedural penalty? Are non Pro guns more likely to go off? The same dump buckets are used at both events.The rules for 2015 have been rewritten from the ground up and will closely follow the Pro Series rules with the same approach to grounding firearms. When will the new rules be posted? As soon as they're ready to be posted they will be available on 3 Gun Nation's website and all 3 series rules will be available. Expected Jan 1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Our range uses dump boxes and tables rather than barrels for its Multi-Gun matches. One of our abandonment rules is that a hand must remain on the gun until the muzzle is in contact with the dump box. It's also viewed a bit more appropriate for the borrowed stage guns we regularly feature in a match. The boxes also seem like they provide a bit more directional 'guidance' than barrels and allow an SO to view condition of the gun without generally having to touch it. These localized abandonment habits actually helped me pick up my first 3GN procedural. I abandoned a safe shotgun during a Classifier stage on the very table I picked it up from instead of dumping it the barrel next to it. Barrels are what I'm used to hiding behind in IDPA. In Oregon, open barrels fill with water. Fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iswope Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Just watched new episode of Hot Shots. This is a great shooting show and has a great format that keeps me interested. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I agree. Hot Shots has always been a great show for the same reasons that 3GN used to be better. I liked 3GN a little more when they tried to get into the shooter's mindsets a little more. It's a little dry these days with just non-stop stage after stage coverage. I love PK's segments as he as great insight but outside of that it's not nearly as interesting as it used to be. I recently went back and watched the 1st couple 3GN episodes on Season 1 again where they were at the MGM Iron Man and it was way more interesting than the episodes now. If anyone who produces the show actually reads these forums I would recommend doing exactly that. Watch Season 1 Episode 1 and then watch whatever the latest episode this past season was and ask yourself which one was more enjoyable to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnorman Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I DVR and watch the show regularly. I too mainly watch for Pat's guns and gear of the pro's segment. I am still in the progress of getting everything to start shooting 3 gun so I do select what gear I select based on the show...with the exception of my pistol. I can't afford a STI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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