rtp Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems like most people don't want to pay for good. What's the saying- good, cheap, or fast? Pick two. Simple - I pick good and cheap, and can/will wait for the right price. I almost never buy brass from various 'businesses' as they believe their brass is made of gold, and for example, are still selling .223/5.56 brass at $100/k unprocessed when the going rate is more like $60/K fairly readily available. Think I'll pay 25% 'processing' on top of that (which is too high, IMO, percentage-wise, on top of already inflated prices)? Unlikely. Do some searching and inevitably you'll also find complaints on the 'pre-processed' brass which in fact, was sized incorrectly (rifle in particular) - any brass I buy is going through my own sizing die, so I wouldn't pay a dime extra for 'sized' rifle (or pistol) brass. Cleaned? I might pay a few $ per K extra. De-capped/swaged? Tough call there, for me. I expect some to be willing to pay for fully processed matching headstamp 5.56, but I probably wouldn't. The best thing you could do is poke around the classifieds here, arfcom EE, gun broker, and get a feel for what brass can be readily purchased for today. Blamtech (now a BE vendor) sells 9mm unprocessed brass for ~$30/K shipped when buying 5k or more, and that more or less matches my typical buy price, so I'll likely be buying from him in the future, unless someone beats it. I might pay $31-$32/K max shipped for stainless pin cleaned 9mm, but no need for any other processing for me in 9mm. 5.56/.223 is ~$60/K unprocessed, mostly matching headstamps, shipped, with a bit of poking around. Knowing this, or whatever else you see out there to confirm market pricing, the questions are: 1. How can you compete with the established businesses and people out there? Maybe this is free cleaning, or..lower price, at least on pistol. Maybe it's bulk pricing. You can try to 'differentiate' by fully processing, matched head stamps, etc...but in reality, I'd bet you're going to shrink your addressable market size if you go in that direction, and it may or may not be enough to run a business with. (look at the number of responses in this and other threads, and how many of us are preferring unprocessed brass, for an example..). You could potentially offer processed .300BO and other 'specialty' brass..might work. 2. Is there enough margin with the above pricing to make a go of it? Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 As a revolver shooter I will pay extra for brass sorted by headstamp. Only certain brands of brass fit my moonclips, paying extra for sorted brass is cheaper than throwing most of it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripod Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 When I buy its must be once fired and sorted by head stamp. And 45acp must be sorted by head stamp and primer pocket size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 5 people who want it sorted 200 who want it however is the cheapest they can get it. Why are certain people so picky on head stamp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenr Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 5 people who want it sorted 200 who want it however is the cheapest they can get it. Why are certain people so picky on head stamp ? Like beer, whiskey, women or men, NASCAR drivers,Cars,Trucks and of course guns, powder, primers and brass personal preference. You will get a different answer for equally differing reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems like the one profitable category after you pay off your equipment is precision rifle brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenr Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems like the one profitable category after you pay off your equipment is precision rifle brass. You are probably right! But then you get into the fanatical benchrest people, tend to want to do their own each and every step. Like they say about the people at the comedy club @ night Don't quit your day job so you can eat on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Pretty much I'm just wondering how tight the zoning laws are for manufacturing ammunition I'm sure it varies state by state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigs Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 5 people who want it sorted 200 who want it however is the cheapest they can get it. Why are certain people so picky on head stamp ? Head stamp matters for rifle and for .45 ACP to a lesser extent. With .45 people want it at least sorted by large and small primers, they mostly want the large. .40 brass has very little market value. I have literally a ton of it... like 2100 pounds or something, and it sells very slowly even at prices not much over scrap. .45 is the most valuable "common" pistol caliber lately. 38/9mm/380/357 sig will sell slightly over scrap value, in a mixed unprocessed state. .357, 454 casull, 44 mag, 45 colt brass, these command higher prices, but are harder to get. You'll wind up at least sorting out the nickel plated stuff. For rifle, people generally don't want to buy crimped primer brass unless you process it. They also generally want rifle sorted by headstamp. Sorting pistol calibers is tough. 9mm nests in .40 and .40 nests in .45. Sorting 380s from 9s by diameter is possible, but difficult if the brass is mostly 9s. As a sort of cruel joke, 38, 357, 40, 357 sig, and 10mm are all the same diameter for screen sorting purposes. 45 GAP mixed into your 45s is also an issue that can't be solved with screen sorting. All in all I would not bother starting a business based around pistol brass, at least not right now. Too much of the common stuff is selling close to scrap value, and sorting it is a lot of work. Rifle brass as a business is no walk in the park either, and I'm feeling a lot of pricing pressure right now. Oh BTW- The case pro 100 roll sizer is about a 1 year wait right now, if you order one today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigs Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Pretty much I'm just wondering how tight the zoning laws are for manufacturing ammunition I'm sure it varies state by state More like city/county. One of the few things the ATF does check is your zoning stuff. You need to make sure to have it in order. I know one guy who couldn't get an FFL 07 because that's manufacturing, but he was able to get an 06 because that's "assembly". Go figure. It really depends on the whim of someone at your local zoning office as to how they are going to interpret things. I got my 07 which the local office insisted was "gunsmithing" and not "manufacturing". I had to show the ATF that even though the permit says gunsmithing, they knew about everything an FFL 07 could do and still wanted to consider that gunsmithing. Since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, ITAR is $2250 per year if you are loading ammo. Product liability insurance is another couple thousand per year. Edited November 4, 2014 by gigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Jeez. I didn't know it was that long. Ya I'm learning towards ammo. But still would need at least 2 roll sizers. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropic Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) When scrap brass was really cheap and sorted brass was selling for record prices in 2009, I made decent money to fund shooting matches while I was still in college. Sorting buckets of range brass on my friends kitchen table was making us $50/hr profit each, and it was easy to sell. I look at it differently now. I know a guy that sells once fired, sorted and tumbled indoor range brass (9mm) for $25/k and always has stock. Time>money so i shoot it at leave it on the ground. You can probably make a living from it, but to truly automate the process will take some time and money depending on your skill. Don't expect to get rich off it. Edited November 4, 2014 by entropic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I don't want to at all. Don't even want it to pay the bills I want to make a extra 500 - 2k a month while still working my day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenr Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Since you mentioned getting into the ammo business, Don't know if you seen this thread or not. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201875#entry2239782 a lot of interesting info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Wish that thread could've kept going. I'm 100% sure it can be done fairly easy. Many people including me. Just get scared of paperwork and start up costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenr Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Wish that thread could've kept going. I'm 100% sure it can be done fairly easy. Many people including me. Just get scared of paperwork and start up costs. If you have a question, about it or would like some info just ast in the thread I'm sure he is a regular on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Unless you are an established reloader with multiple contacts and several tons of powder right now you will not make much on regular ammo. I personally got tired of working two jobs and sold my business at the right time. There are many small companies that are going out of business right now because they can't get pistol powder. Anyone going into the ammo business right now is going to hemorrhage cash to buy overpriced powder, as primers and bullets are back down to reasonable rates. This is not the time to start an ammo business. The people that are doing well are guys like Freakshow who are loading specialty calibers full time or established businesses that have tons of contacts to find stuff when they need it. On the brass side, there is not a lot of guys processing brass right now. If you want to find a couple of old Scharch machines and roll sizers you could make some money. You will need space, something to move pallets with, and cheap sources of brass at a Buck a pound. Much more than that and you won't make much margin. You also need cheap hand labor to sort the brass. You will handle the brass at least 5 times before it leaves your hands. Sounds like fun doesn't it.......You have a lot more research to do......Good luck! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm buying 100 lbs this weekend to do a test run. At 2.05 a pound it can't be found around here that cheap scrap is. 1.63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigs Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I'm buying 100 lbs this weekend to do a test run. At 2.05 a pound it can't be found around here that cheap scrap is. 1.63 Good luck! You will probably make money. The question is whether it's enough money to keep you at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) It just sucks because that's the cheapest price I can find it at. unless I buy everything a range has every month and there lead as well (don't even know what to do with the lead) and that adds up to thousands a month I don't have and a forklift and a truck trailer. Lol I don't think I have enough posts on this website to post in the classifieds so I will send a link to Facebook if anyone is interested in buying from me. Sorry for the grammar talking to the phone doesn't work very well. Edited November 6, 2014 by nzxtguy123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 It just sucks because that's the jeep is price I can find a that unless I buy everything a rain has every month and I have to lock the thousands of dollars that I don't have. I'll post in hear what I have I don't think I'm allowed to sell on the site yet because of my low post count Hopefully your phone is trying to autocorrect? Because if it's not You won't make any money being drunk all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzxtguy123 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 It just sucks because that's the cheapest price I can find it at. unless I buy everything a range has every month and there lead as well (don't even know what to do with the lead) and that adds up to thousands a month I don't have and a forklift and a truck trailer. Lol I don't think I have enough posts on this website to post in the classifieds so I will send a link to Facebook if anyone is interested in buying from me. Sorry for the grammar talking to the phone doesn't work very well.Edited thank u It just sucks because that's the jeep is price I can find a that unless I buy everything a rain has every month and I have to lock the thousands of dollars that I don't have. I'll post in hear what I have I don't think I'm allowed to sell on the site yet because of my low post countHopefully your phone is trying to autocorrect? Because if it's not You won't make any money being drunk all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Just my .02 worth of brass... Just started reloading a month back. For the 4-5 months before, I was buying brass as I saw a good deal pop up. So right now I think I have 3,000 9mm cases sitting there, and 5-6,000 .40 cases sitting there that I don't even have dies for. I got the stuff because it averaged out to .02/case shipped. My .45 I buy at the local shows because there is a guy willing to sell me for .04/case cash AND it has already been tumbled. At those prices, there isn't going to be much money in cases unless you can either offer great prices or a little incentive to purchase. heck, I keep seeing a guy on Armslist selling 9 and .40 for $20/1000. the only thing that seems to have any value in handgun calibers any more is .380 auto and .45. Also, a lot of ranges sot the brass themselves and make some extra money at it, so you may not even be able to get your foot in the door at some of the places in your area. I don't think now is the time to get into the business. There is lots to go around, and with ammo prices dropping, the brass price needs to drop considerably more in order to make it worthwhile for people to load themselves. When you can get 9mm from Freedom for less than $10 a box shipped to your door depending on the deal of the week, there isn't much incentive for many people to buy components that would price out to $9 a box. You are probably 2 years late getting in. Good luck in your venture though if you decide to keep going for it. Edited November 6, 2014 by mikeinctown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djeffers Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Based off of my component prices with free brass (range pick up). I am coming out to about $6.00/box of 50 to reload. If I had to buy 9mm brass @ $30/ 1k that would bump my cost to reload up to about $7.45/box of 50. That is using plated bullet prices with lead a little cheaper and jacketed being more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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